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  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Such a change. For the better.
    Yes! They have also announced that the layered and soil topped area, meters from the Naval Basin , Ordnance workshops , and Dockyard machine shops and stores , will become an amenity Park as announced by Cork County Council spokesman on Parks Mr. Lucy on today's News. No Doubt CCC will provide all the security and supervision required of the visitors while on the island and dissuade them from visiting the ships or taking photographs of a Naval Installation. Perhaps we should now have an amenity Park alongside the Runway at Baldonnell and a Ferris Wheel and Bouncy Castle on Leinster House Lawns etc.

    Had you visited the site recently or even viewed the plans, you will see that this park is completely sterile from the Naval Base. If anything it will provide best views of visiting cruise liners. Different access completely.
    In any event one does not need to visit a naval base to photograph a ship. Those with decent equipment have been doing so from the Lake road in Cobh for years.
    If anything the new development is more secure than it used to be. I can no longer take videos like the one I took from the Graving dock of the Steel mill being demolished.
    Note also that the Museum in Collins Barracks, Cork, is inside the main gate.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
      Had you visited the site recently or even viewed the plans, you will see that this park is completely sterile from the Naval Base. If anything it will provide best views of visiting cruise liners. Different access completely.
      In any event one does not need to visit a naval base to photograph a ship. Those with decent equipment have been doing so from the Lake road in Cobh for years.
      If anything the new development is more secure than it used to be. I can no longer take videos like the one I took from the Graving dock of the Steel mill being demolished.
      Note also that the Museum in Collins Barracks, Cork, is inside the main gate.
      The principle of security includes controlled access and know who is coming. From the entrance to the off bridge roundabout area will be common to tour traffic, Naval traffic , and NMCI traffic from Base. No military museum that I am aware of is open to drop in unsupervised visitors. The only interesting thing out on the PARK area is the harbour view and the Naval Base Dockyard. Great opportunities for ship counting and associated matters.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        The principle of security includes controlled access and know who is coming. From the entrance to the off bridge roundabout area will be common to tour traffic, Naval traffic , and NMCI traffic from Base. No military museum that I am aware of is open to drop in unsupervised visitors. The only interesting thing out on the PARK area is the harbour view and the Naval Base Dockyard. Great opportunities for ship counting and associated matters.
        Again, you should visit the area. Much has changed in recent months. You could always count the ships from the Lake road in Cobh. You can even see which ones are in refit by the scaffolding in their masts and the removed main armament. This is not considered a security risk by other navies. The RN frequently broadcast footage of their ships going into refit, during refit and on post refit trials.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
          Again, you should visit the area. Much has changed in recent months. You could always count the ships from the Lake road in Cobh. You can even see which ones are in refit by the scaffolding in their masts and the removed main armament. This is not considered a security risk by other navies. The RN frequently broadcast footage of their ships going into refit, during refit and on post refit trials.
          All unverifiable iro other Navies, but the security of our Navy is compromised by efforts to civilianise it's ethos . By day and night it will add further security duties to staffs. I remember as a young BDO having to visit the basin to inspect dockyard area and laid up ships ( only one at sea). If my memory serves me, on the continent , recently a photographer taking shots through an installation fence was arrested for attempting to obtain intelligence. This Park project HAS to weaken security and require extra response at a time which shows us 7th on the league table of risk. Why take risk just to justify major expenditure on an environmental cock-up.

          Comment


          • You could count them from Cobh

            Comment


            • I am very reluctant to be drawn into a debate regarding the security of the Naval base, apart from saying in this regard you are wrong. Much has changed since the days you were a Young officer.
              In your day the basin was shared with shipping from a range of international fleets, which faced no security monitoring. Now the basin is exclusively NS.

              Again I urge you to make a visit. You will be impressed with the changes.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Orion View Post
                What about a Butlins next to Gormanston Camp ......
                I have fond memories of visiting that Butlins as a kid, going on the rides while listening to what sounded like the Normandy landings a mile or so away!
                'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                Comment


                • Haulbowline

                  Just a reminder of the plans.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                    I am very reluctant to be drawn into a debate regarding the security of the Naval base, apart from saying in this regard you are wrong. Much has changed since the days you were a Young officer.
                    In your day the basin was shared with shipping from a range of international fleets, which faced no security monitoring. Now the basin is exclusively NS.

                    Again I urge you to make a visit. You will be impressed with the changes.
                    It is interesting that you believe security is based on loose parameters such as what was got away with in history and what must be imposed now because of funding structures to provide an amenity Park with no buffer zone between said Park and the country's only Naval Base. No ship ever docked at Haulbowline without the knowledge of the Base and some level of security was always there-NO security monitoring was never an option. Civilians departed to and from Spenser's Jetty with no access to Service Piers. If the Park concept persists it might be time to build a New Naval Base with major Dockyard facilities at another location. Making security MORE difficult deliberately is shifting responsibility to overburdened Service people.

                    Comment


                    • Looking at the picture of the plans it shows two separate roads, one for the naval basin and one for the "park". Also I am sure the naval service will have a say on what type of fencing and security they want to secure the perimeter.
                      It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                      It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                      It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                      It was the year everything changed.

                      Comment




                      • A huge improvement.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                          Looking at the picture of the plans it shows two separate roads, one for the naval basin and one for the "park". Also I am sure the naval service will have a say on what type of fencing and security they want to secure the perimeter.
                          The road from the bridge roundabout/junction to the east currently serves the dump/park area and the Naval Dockyard area. Is the route to be divided at the median to separate DOD and civilian traffic. Guantanamo in reverse.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                            The road from the bridge roundabout/junction to the east currently serves the dump/park area and the Naval Dockyard area. Is the route to be divided at the median to separate DOD and civilian traffic. Guantanamo in reverse.
                            Do you want it secure or not?
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              Do you want it secure or not?
                              But of course, however necessary fencing and division demonstrates that security is required at the outset. This will fall on the hard pressed naval Service.
                              The phase of developing the west side of the basin needs to be now put in hand to provide shore facilities for in- port naval ships. International green agenda wants all ships in port to be on shore power to cut diesel emmissions. We already have this at OW and East side of basin.

                              Comment


                              • A site about the Houses of the Oireachtas that you can actually follow.

                                Written answers
                                Tuesday, 5 February 2019
                                Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine
                                Regeneration Projects Status
                                Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
                                Link to this: Individually | In context

                                480. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine the work carried out to date at a site (details supplied); the amount spent; the details in relation to the south tip and a building in this regard; when the public park is expected to open; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5612/19]

                                Photo of Michael CreedMichael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
                                Link to this: Individually | In context

                                My Department assumed responsibility for remediation works at Haulbowline Island on behalf of the Irish Government in 2012, primarily in order to comply with the terms of a CJEU judgment (Case C-494/01) under the Waste Framework Directive concerning the East Tip site. Funding for the remediation project is currently provided to my Department, in accordance with the specific conditions set out by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, on an annual basis up to the completion date of the remediation works.

                                The East Tip works are the most significant element of the remediation project. In the period up to 2017 expenditure was focussed on preparing for and securing the necessary planning and waste licence consents for the East Tip remediation and upgrading the island infrastructure in anticipation of works. Following the signing of contracts in July 2017, the remediation of the East Tip commenced. By the end of 2017 just over €13m had been spent on regularising the planning and licensing requirements, engaging in preparatory works and completing necessary site investigations amongst other elements. With the bulk of the East Tip remediation works having been completed during 2018, the expenditure on the project currently stands at €23m. I visited the site in December 2018 and I understand that there are some minor finishing works on the site to be completed early this year and the access road leading into the site is also being upgraded.

                                While the priority has been remediation of the East Tip, work on assessing a suitable solution for the former steelworks factory site has also been advanced in preparation for the next phase of the remediation project. Detailed site investigations have been undertaken and the preparation of an application for planning consent has also been advanced. The Government has decided that the Minister for Defence will be the ultimate owner of Haulbowline Island, in keeping with the main occupancy of the island, being the headquarters for the Irish Naval Service. Any remediation solution for these areas will need to be cognisant of their likely long term use. The Department of Defence has advised that it has engaged specialist engineers to examine the areas in question in order to explore the potential of these areas for naval operations in the future which will inform and direct remediation works in the first instance. Information from site investigation studies and assessments to date has been made available to the Department of Defence to assist in this work.

                                With regard to the opening of a public park on the island, I understand that Cork County Council has expressed a desire to open a public park at the East Tip site on completion of remediation works and has received agreement in principle from the Department of Defence for this. The relevant opening date will be a matter for those two bodies to determine.

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