OPV Replacement

[ropebag]

... Naval Strike Missile...

why on Gods green earth would anyone equip an NS vessel with the NSM?

under what circumstances that don't include Unicorns, Fairies and Enda Kenny being revealed as none other than Sauron, Dark Lord of Mordor would an NS vessel be authorised to use a weapon with a range of over 100 miles and a warhead of over 250lb?

127mm main gun only makes sense if the NS was going to be given the money to buy the guided ammunition that allows it to be used at the kind of range that the 127 provides, otherwise its just a laughable penis substitute. so its a laughable penis substitute...

CAMM(N) is a sensible choice - it can do the missile defence capability the NS is so lacking, and it can also engage small surface targets.

[Graylion]

SPEAR-VL is in the pipeline and can share VLS cells with CAMM(-ER).

Alternatively to Sea Giraffe 4a: TRS-4D, which would actually be my preferred option. Was thinking Sea Giraffe cos one could also integrate Giraffe 4a with land based FLAADS and have commonality.

[Graylion]

why on Gods green earth would anyone equip an NS vessel with the NSM?

under what circumstances that don't include Unicorns, Fairies and Enda Kenny being revealed as none other than Sauron, Dark Lord of Mordor would an NS vessel be authorised to use a weapon with a range of over 100 miles and a warhead of over 250lb?

127mm main gun only makes sense if the NS was going to be given the money to buy the guided ammunition that allows it to be used at the kind of range that the 127 provides, otherwise its just a laughable penis substitute. so its a laughable penis substitute...

CAMM(N) is a sensible choice - it can do the missile defence capability the NS is so lacking, and it can also engage small surface targets.

For the NS, SPEAR3-VL will probably be more realistic, I'll admit.

[Jaque'ammer]

SPEAR-VL is in the pipeline and can share VLS cells with CAMM(-ER).

Alternatively to Sea Giraffe 4a: TRS-4D, which would actually be my preferred option. Was thinking Sea Giraffe cos one could also integrate Giraffe 4a with land based FLAADS and have commonality.

Is the NS seriously looking into buying VLS's or is this just speculation?

If it's being seriously considered it would be a great asset to the Defense Forces and would make further missions to the Med a lot safer.

[pym]

under what circumstances that don't include Unicorns, Fairies and Enda Kenny being revealed as none other than Sauron, Dark Lord of Mordor would an NS vessel...

Alright fess up, who gave you my script to Jadotville 2: Sauron's Revenge?

[ancientmariner]

why on Gods green earth would anyone equip an NS vessel with the NSM?

under what circumstances that don't include Unicorns, Fairies and Enda Kenny being revealed as none other than Sauron, Dark Lord of Mordor would an NS vessel be authorised to use a weapon with a range of over 100 miles and a warhead of over 250lb?

127mm main gun only makes sense if the NS was going to be given the money to buy the guided ammunition that allows it to be used at the kind of range that the 127 provides, otherwise its just a laughable penis substitute. so its a laughable penis substitute...

CAMM(N) is a sensible choice - it can do the missile defence capability the NS is so lacking, and it can also engage small surface targets.

The NSM Kongsberg is a minimum choice to allow offensive action against ships and shore targets in support of land forces. Norwegian ships and others are so equipped. We cannot call on any of our services to deliver assistance, such a system , would give the NS that choice of action. Mobile versions are used by Polish Coast Defence units. 250 lbs HE is nothing to a pattern of 10 D.C's with 250lbs of amatol each, which armed our OLD ships.
We must have belief and aspirations to make our Defence Forces more than an ACP, or cosmetic Units.

[ropebag]

The NSM Kongsberg is a minimum choice to allow offensive action against ships and shore targets in support of land forces. Norwegian ships and others are so equipped. We cannot call on any of our services to deliver assistance, such a system , would give the NS that choice of action. Mobile versions are used by Polish Coast Defence units. 250 lbs HE is nothing to a pattern of 10 D.C's with 250lbs of amatol each, which armed our OLD ships.
We must have belief and aspirations to make our Defence Forces more than an ACP, or cosmetic Units.

Sorry mate, but you're just a million miles from political reality - you might as well say that the British Army needs 50 full Armoured Divisions on the off chance that Theresa May wants a back garden that stretches from the channel to Vladivostok.

No remotely foreseeable Irish government is going to be interested in an operation that requires the bombardment of large shore targets by Irish vessels or the sinking of large warships at over 100 miles. None.

[Sparky42]

Sorry mate, but you're just a million miles from political reality - you might as well say that the British Army needs 50 full Armoured Divisions on the off chance that Theresa May wants a back garden that stretches from the channel to Vladivostok.

No remotely foreseeable Irish government is going to be interested in an operation that requires the bombardment of large shore targets by Irish vessels or the sinking of large warships at over 100 miles. None.

I'd be happy with effective Self Defence systems (CAMM/ESSM) CWIS, Decoys, as to the main gun the more modern 76mm with the support systems would do.

[ropebag]

....250 lbs HE is nothing to a pattern of 10 D.C's with 250lbs of amatol each, which armed our OLD ships.

If you don't understand the political difference between big lumps of explosives being lobbed off a ship 200 miles out into the Atlantic to sink an armed submarine, and a big lump of explosive being lobbed at an insurgent/terrorist base in the middle of a city, or next to a refugee camp, or on an airfield next to a town, or indeed at an insurgent/terrorist position that is firing on Irish troops during a PEO, then you need to redo politics 101.

You may as well argue that the PC-9M being armed solely with unguided munitions is fine because the RAF used unguided munitions to flatten Dresden in 1945 - the world has changed, and the Irish political class wets itself when there's blood on the razor. If you think that any Irish Government would sanction the use of such a weapon you need to lay off the toilet duck.

[ancientmariner]

If you don't understand the political difference between big lumps of explosives being lobbed off a ship 200 miles out into the Atlantic to sink an armed submarine, and a big lump of explosive being lobbed at an insurgent/terrorist base in the middle of a city, or next to a refugee camp, or on an airfield next to a town, or indeed at an insurgent/terrorist position that is firing on Irish troops during a PEO, then you need to redo politics 101.

You may as well argue that the PC-9M being armed solely with unguided munitions is fine because the RAF used unguided munitions to flatten Dresden in 1945 - the world has changed, and the Irish political class wets itself when there's blood on the razor. If you think that any Irish Government would sanction the use of such a weapon you need to lay off the toilet duck.

Political indifference is one thing, the bigger diluter of capability is DOD itself and indifference of case makers that arm our forces. There is some pressure for the Navy to be included in EUNAVFOR Med which requires some sharper interventions in pursuit of controlling migrant trafficking. Strike missiles such as Kongsberg types are the new bombardment lower range munitions with a range around 110kms and a "must have" capability in any Navy for its anti ship or specific shore target modes. If there is an aversion to taking action then of course say so and leave it to others.

[DeV]

There is some pressure for the Navy to be included in EUNAVFOR Med which requires some sharper interventions in pursuit of controlling migrant trafficking.

From whom?

That could be a PR disaster considering the good press the NS has got

[ropebag]

From whom?

That could be a PR disaster considering the good press the NS has got

The Italians, Maltese and wider EU structures for a start - as far as they are concerned the Irish are running a ferry service that dumps migrants they neither want nor can afford at their ports and then swanning off in a flurry of congratulatory Facebook posts - from people who don't have to feed, clothe and house the migrants the Irish drop off.

Has the NS used any of this good publicity to achieve any improvement in its equipment, or public discussion of its role, doctrine and future requirements, or indeed a wider political discussion of Irish foreign and defence policy in the Europe of the future -oe just as an opportunity to get its leg over?

[DeV]

The Italians, Maltese and wider EU structures for a start - as far as they are concerned the Irish are running a ferry service that dumps migrants they neither want nor can afford at their ports and then swanning off in a flurry of congratulatory Facebook posts - from people who don't have to feed, clothe and house the migrants the Irish drop off.

Strange because between 22 June 15 and 30 Aug 16, EUNAVFOR Med has done exactly the same thing as the NS, rescuing 24,800 people and landing them in EU countries (and the mission includes the nations you mention).

The difference is that the NS is overtly involved in SAR (I'm sure that if they encounter suspected people smugglers they would detain them and I'm sure that all smugglers boats that people are rescued from are sunk or they would become hazards to navigation. That is exactly what EUNAVFOR MED's mandate is (they haven't move to phase 3 yet (ie taking on smuggling at the shoreline)).

I don't see any reason why the NS couldn't participate in Phase 2 of EUNAVFOR MED. Phase 3 would probably depend on a UNSC mandate (I think it does for the whole mission but not sure if it has been forthcoming yet). However, the mission now also involves training the Libyian CG & navy and implementation of the UN arms embargo on Libya.

http://eeas.europa.eu/csdp/missions-and-operations/eunavfor-med/pdf/factsheet_eunavfor_med_en.pdf

Has the NS used any of this good publicity to achieve any improvement in its equipment, or public discussion of its role, doctrine and future requirements, or indeed a wider political discussion of Irish foreign and defence policy in the Europe of the future -oe just as an opportunity to get its leg over?

Well I'm sure it helped sell the idea of increasing the size of the NS fleet by 12% and it will definitely help sell the idea of the MRV.


Edit:
There is a UNSCR implementing the arms embargo so no reason why the NS couldn't get involved. Not 100% on a UNSCR allowing taking on the traffickers on land.

I'd say we are operating an extremely successful standalone mission currently. The vessel could be tasked to EUNAVFOR MED for phase 2 IMHO, phase 3 may depend on a UNSCR.

[ancientmariner]

From whom?

That could be a PR disaster considering the good press the NS has got

.

Hopefully NOT. It would just regularize our operational deployments in the Mediterranean, as all participants are rescuing as appropriate, but other parts of mandate applies such as destroying trafficking boats and apprehending trafficking suspects. Our current presence , about to be continue by SB, from the outset was not fully supported by the mandarins in DOD. The sound intelligence of SC overcame the reluctance to deploy and we are now in the position of having aided over 12,000 souls. I think it would be more unifying EU wise if we were all on the same page in EUNAVFOR.

[Graylion]

Mostly I would like to see ship with serious tonnage for better crew accommodation and sea ride. Hence also the idea of an (A)X(e) Bow. Let's say something in the 4 Gg size range. 24 kts on all diesels.

Armament:

2*76mm Strales (regular in bow and Sovraponte on hangar)
4*HitRole 20M with M230
32 (space for 72) VLS for FLAADS and VL Spear 3
FBNW NSM
Hangar with space for 1*10t chopper and drones. should accommodate up to Caracal
Stern and side launched RIB

Radar: Airbus TRS-4D R or Sea Giraffe 4a with fire control software update. Kingklip sonar