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    • The additional maneuvering aid of a stern thruster makes the ship an ideal subject for an integrated joystick control system and PTI will give suitable loading factors for prolonged slow running below 12 knots. I think all of our newer ships have a slow running capability and maybe could be adapted for integrated maneuvering using one thruster, two propellers, and twin rudders as part of the DP system. The nice thing is the AFM is getting most of it for free from the EU.

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      • Not something you usually see on such a site:

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        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
          Not something you usually see on such a site:
          http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...t-program.html
          VARD are in attendance at IMEX at Singapore. They are pushing the VARD 713 and VARD 510 and are also showing an on stand video of the Irish Naval Service and it's latest OPV's. The video is available on Facebook . If we were to consider Vard 713 then we must consider adjusting the Basin size, including reopening the drydock 182m X 28.65.

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          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            VARD are in attendance at IMEX at Singapore. They are pushing the VARD 713 and VARD 510 and are also showing an on stand video of the Irish Naval Service and it's latest OPV's. The video is available on Facebook . If we were to consider Vard 713 then we must consider adjusting the Basin size, including reopening the drydock 182m X 28.65.
            If I could add, at this weekend SeaFest 2019 in Cork, there were 4 vessels alongside the Old Victoria Quay, P52, P64, Maritime Institute Celtic vessel, and a fishing vessel. It brought home to me that the upper City berths would hardly accommodate the current vessels of the INS to give an alongside quay wall berth for each vessel. The harbour needs some redesign to accommodate visiting warships and Cruise Liners in a secure accessible manner.From vessels waiting for berths, in the roads, to haphazard un-designated berths in Cork it seems ships are caught up in a port in transition, with potentionally not enough Berths.

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            • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
              Not something you usually see on such a site:
              http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...t-program.html
              Pity that photo caption is wrong... thats not Waterford.. and its not pissing rain..so its not the comissioning of the latest vessel
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                Pity that photo caption is wrong... thats not Waterford.. and its not pissing rain..so its not the comissioning of the latest vessel
                Oh I know, but really given how surprising it is to even have them mentioned it's not surprising that they went with a stock photo.

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                • That was the Samuel Beckett in Dublin. I was at that.

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                  • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                    That was the Samuel Beckett in Dublin. I was at that.
                    As was I. If they changed "The ceremonial of the commissioning of the new Irish OPV" to "The ceremonial of the commissioning of a new Irish OPV" it could be more accurate.
                    There was a visiting Excursion cruise liner "Ocean Endeavour" (137m loa)arriving this morning, swinging at Horgans Quay and i Could see the crew of L.E Niamh paying close attention to the manouver, given their proximity to the swinging basin.
                    The proposed redevelopment "should" provide more appropriate berthage for visiting vessels, (3 average size cargo vessels would have berthed there in the past, the longest being 150m however most developers are sea blind, and consider a quayside something to look out your apartment block at, rather than someplace secure for ships to berth safely.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                    • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                      That was the Samuel Beckett in Dublin. I was at that.
                      Now that the program for OPV's is now complete and our operationally viable fleet is deployable subject to manpower and ongoing refits of the two older vessels, it is time to contract out the replacement of P31, P41, and P42. In replacing the latter three, which includes our Flagship , the decision on type, range, and scope must be to fill National, obligatory , and endemic threat needs as outlined in recent White Papers. The Department of Defence must confine itself to Finance and Administrative matters and not make decisions that will impact future use of the vessels. The proposed MRV must have an expansive flight deck, with shipboard crane arms housed clear of Fl. Deck. so that most Helicopters that operate in the Marine environment can land on for fuel or respite.
                      The MCM area is difficult in that the expert navies , Belgium and Netherlands, are in transition building a new system based on a mother ship (2000t +) and drones both for finding and Mine destruction. The RN now have 4 Minehunters based in Bharain and would be a great source of practical knowledge for a detachment of our personnel. Our choices are to follow a known system from either RN, Belgium/Netherlands, Swedish Navy, or US. It shouldn't be an accident of acquisition as was the case with the "Ton" class CMS's.

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                      • In terms of future planning/purchasing, should the NS start looking at trying to join the European Patrol Corvette program? I mean there's now 4 EU nations signed on with interest from two more and one of the options is an OPV variant. France is talking about it's first being built in 2030 so it would fit in with the replacement of the P50 class at that stage?
                        There are now four members of the European Patrol Corvette program, created to design and develop a prototype of a modular 3,300-ton ship responsible for a number of tasks and missions, including those performed by ocean patrol vessels and light frigates.

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                        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                          In terms of future planning/purchasing, should the NS start looking at trying to join the European Patrol Corvette program? I mean there's now 4 EU nations signed on with interest from two more and one of the options is an OPV variant. France is talking about it's first being built in 2030 so it would fit in with the replacement of the P50 class at that stage?
                          https://www.defensenews.com/naval/20...stomize-ships/
                          Just because it is called "European" does not mean it is a trans-EU project. The project is to keep the Italian/French naval grouping together. Before even fixing the requirements they have selected the main contractor; NAVIRIS. This is exactly what the EU needs to get away from when it comes to defence.

                          Secondly having each nation customize their vessel is repeating the massive mistakes made with the A400M and NH90 projects. There needs to be one common set of requirements, which can be modular but the vessels need to be as common as possible. Going back to the good old day, the RN reckoned it took 3-4 vessels in a class before a yard was able to efficient produce them. With multiple yards producing multiple variants all compromise by a notion but lack of commonality it will just be an expensive project to stroke some national pride. Being able to spread the design costs over a larger number of common vessels is key to getting costs under control.

                          And it is not as if there is not already a design very similar to the vessel already, take the new Finnish corvettes being built. Problem is they are not being built in Italy or France and do not have a lot of systems from either of those countries. Better would be that countries express their needs to a common agency (OCCAR) and that agency then selects the winner that best meets those needs. Otherwise we will continue to have a split inefficient defence industry in the EU.
                          Last edited by EUFighter; 17 May 2020, 15:21.

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                          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            Just because it is called "European" does not mean it is a trans-EU project. The project is to keep the Italian/French naval grouping together. Before even fixing the requirements they have selected the main contractor; NAVIRIS. This is exactly what the EU needs to get away from when it comes to defence.

                            Secondly having each nation customize their vessel is repeating the massive mistakes made with the A400M and NH90 projects. There needs to be one common set of requirements, which can be modular but the vessels need to be as common as possible. Going back to the good old day, the RN reckoned it took 3-4 vessels in a class before a yard was able to efficient produce them. With multiple yards producing multiple variants all compromise by a notion but lack of commonality it will just be an expensive project to stroke some national pride. Being able to spread the design costs over a larger number of common vessels is key to getting costs under control.

                            And it is not as if there is not already a design very similar to the vessel already, take the new Finnish corvettes being built. Problem is they are not being built in Italy or France and do not have a lot of systems from either of those countries. Better would be that countries express their needs to a common agency (OCCAR) and that agency then selects the winner that best meets those needs. Otherwise we will continue to have a split inefficient defence industry in the EU.
                            The grouping of ship building projects in Europe is as you say, a means to control costs , and share developments necessary for technical fit-out. All of our OPV classes are now finished and a 2030 replacement program for P50 class is too far away and would take from the necessary replacement programme for the three 1980's vessels that need consideration at this time. In general a class of ship will have the same hull and general arrangement if they are all built in a short time frame, however longer projects run into generational changes in electronics for radar, communications, and FCS. A radar generation may be as short as 5 years, and ideally you want a common fit for operations and training. Again we shouldn't try to build without using a contracted outside ship design office, to meet installation standards for sensitive electronic equipments. It may be within the aegis of Pesco that we can obtain all the assistance we need for future replacement build, especially MCM and ship air defence.

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                            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                              The grouping of ship building projects in Europe is as you say, a means to control costs , and share developments necessary for technical fit-out. All of our OPV classes are now finished and a 2030 replacement program for P50 class is too far away and would take from the necessary replacement programme for the three 1980's vessels that need consideration at this time. In general a class of ship will have the same hull and general arrangement if they are all built in a short time frame, however longer projects run into generational changes in electronics for radar, communications, and FCS. A radar generation may be as short as 5 years, and ideally you want a common fit for operations and training. Again we shouldn't try to build without using a contracted outside ship design office, to meet installation standards for sensitive electronic equipments. It may be within the aegis of Pesco that we can obtain all the assistance we need for future replacement build, especially MCM and ship air defence.
                              Newer generations of naval vessels, even at frigate level, are less armoured now than in previous decades. The concentration is to increase survivability by taking care of vital areas of the ship to allow for functionality up to a direct hit. This can be done by watertight subdivision, protecting vital ship systems by using Kevlar products as recommended, Fire Insulation to give all routes at least a one hour rating, running power and transmission systems on protected trays and not together, run alternate emergency circuits on a different side of the ship to main circuits so that both are not lost together. Protect radar with Kevlar domes, protect operations spaces , and magazines in similar fashion as well as rapid flooding in the latter space.
                              An OPV can also be fitted to meet contingencies remembering that if she is to be tasked beyond the capability of a single gun she needs to be up-armed to deal wiith swarm attacks. The critical ingredient is to build in the survival defences either when building or during refits piecemeal. The key would be the gun and a Combat management System to cope with additional armament and tasking and deal with multi-targets.
                              Eithne's replacement will have a flight deck, it may be that a helicopter has to stay longer than touch and go, so it might be wise to consider a grid, in-flight refuelling, hot-refuelling, and possibly a starting unit to multi-national standards (NATO). Weaponry for such a ship could include Bofors Mk.4 40mm plus 2 x 30/25mm cannon, decoy rocket system, and an ASM and AAM systems.

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