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  • #61
    Lets keep the Heli discussion for the Air Corps section Please!

    Naval vessels are not as expensive as one would think. Niamh and Roisin cost £23m each, and it is fair to say that they are no more sophisticated than the proposed vessel. Eithne, during her troubled construction, cost twice what was estimated in 1984, and took about £27m from the states coffers. That said, her weapon and sensor fit was far more complex than that seen on the P50 class.

    In 1997, one for one replacement of the P20 class was estimated at £23m per ship. This was assuming that they would be replaced by similar OPV to the P50. The first £4.5m being spent this year on the initial planning and consultation process. A replacement of L.E. Eithne with a similar type of vessel(HPV) was estimated at £30m.(Note all figures in IR£). It is worth Noting that the report from which I take these figures, believed the total expendeture for an entire replacement of the fleet over an 18 year period, could be achieved through re investment of savings made since the Re Organisation of the Defence Forces in 1994.

    This estimate did not factor in any role other than that of Fisheries Protection, and a Minimalist Multitasking Naval capability.(1998 report to the Steering Group on the Review of the Irish Naval service and Air Corps)

    Another cost option being utilised in other Naval forces, including the RN, is that of leasing the vessels. A vessel such as the one being considered here, would serve a "less wealthy" nation well, in years to come. We would lease the vessel from the Builders in a Public/Private Partnership(as is the case in the Maritime college), with the option at the end of a fixed term to either Buy the vessel outright, or return it to the Builders, who are then free to sell it on the buoyant(no pun intended) second hand Naval market. 20 year old Naval vessels are quite popular with Eastern European and South American Navies.

    Another consideration, given the proposed humanitarian role, is that some of the other Government departments and NGOs would be encouraged to fund elements of the vessel, mission specific to the use they consider they would make of it. Its a small fraction, but still a way of dispersing the cost.

    But at the end of the day, if a good enough case is made for such a vessel, the Government will provide the finance, or failing that, will go with the over used begging bowl to Europe for some of the Funding. Remember that if we decide to claim mineral rights further than the 200mile limit, this will be of benefit to the EU, not just Ireland.

    Its a bigger picture than just Ireland funding a naval vessel for Ireland.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • #62
      Hmm... Aegis destroyers are going for just shy of a billion dollars apiece. Must be all those special $20,000 toilet seats and $1,500 spanners.

      NTM
      Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

      Comment


      • #63
        Possibly something to do with the SPY1D Phased array too.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • #64
          Curious if you put other major recent Defence contracts in perspective to the proposed one of for this Multi Role Vessel (MRV) the two most recent major procurement contracts for the Air Corps has been the Pilatus PC-9Ms and the Agusta/Eurocopter Deals have both exceded over €60million in cost aswell as associated support infrastructure extra etc... and the Army contract for the Mowags APCs has exceded €80million so far (inculding recent ordered ones i.e 30mm ones)

          So if the Naval Service was to place a order for a vessel such as the MRV it would be in keeping with recent Defence procurements cost wise possibly costing between €60-80million for this vessel.
          Just Interesting comparsion I taught...
          British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
          Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

          [As the British flag comes down]

          Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

          Comment


          • #65
            The Meko 200 Frigates in use by Greece cost $1.2bn for 3. However they have a much more complex sensor equipment,engine and weapon fit to the ship being proposed here. The NZ Navy for example are currently building a fleet of 7 ships, for NZ$500m,(€285m) consisting of 2 OPV an MRV and 4 Inshore patrol vessels.



            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • #66
              If the following financial report is anything to go by, then I would guess that there is good chance that the ns will get exactly what they are asking for.
              The latest figures from the Department of Finance show that there was an Exchequer deficit of €499m for 2005, a considerably lower figure than the Goverment prediction of a deficit of €3bn and almost half the shortfall the government estimated last month.

              "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


              Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

              Comment


              • #67
                When you consider that the current fleet due for replacement were for the most part buillt during a time of recession, when the state hadn't 2 pennies(phingins) to rub together, it makes the case all the more logical. But hey, I'm sure there is a tribunal around the corner that they could throw that money at instead...


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #68
                  If the following financial report is anything to go by, then I would guess that there is good chance that the ns will get exactly what they are asking for.
                  The latest figures from the Department of Finance show that there was an Exchequer deficit of €499m for 2005, a considerably lower figure than the Goverment prediction of a deficit of €3bn and almost half the shortfall the government estimated last month.

                  "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                  Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Hopefully it would be great to see further investment in the Irish Naval Service hopefully in the shape of the MRV and then Two vessels in the P50 class, they would enhance are capabilty by a huge amount and give the Key Parthners in the Defence forces a great asset to use for enhanceing are skills in area such as Tactical Anphibious Warfare Deployment etc aswell as providing a Training vessel for recruits and cadets and for the Maritime College that has been mentioned previously on this thread and acourse a new OPVs to add to the fleet..
                    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                    [As the British flag comes down]

                    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      The simulators in the Maritime college are better than what any training vessel could provide. Lets walk before we can run. A decent replacment for Emer first. Dont even mention things like
                      Tactical Anphibious Warfare Deployment
                      . Warfare is a dirty word when you are hoping that the EU will fund a portion of the building costs.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I meant that in reality that the Defence Forces will be hopefully be using the likes of the MRV for Amphious Warfare Training aswell as other tasks as a training vessel etc.. im not suggesting we advocat this to the EU when we go to them looking for Aid to assist the Naval Service in purchasing such a vessel.

                        We that would primarily use thr MRV type for not just likes of Amphibious Warfare Training (which it wouldnt be anyways it spend the majority of life patroling the EEZ etc.. thats what i was trying to emply with my previous thread.
                        British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                        Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                        [As the British flag comes down]

                        Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          stop using those words....


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Maybe this a bit more Politacally Correct or "P.C" what about "Amphibious Tactical Operations" does sound like it would be bit more like our style... and not to in the face such as a word like (Warfare)
                            British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                            Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                            [As the British flag comes down]

                            Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Tactical sounds far too military for most people in this country's liking!

                              Leave it at the just vague enough "amphibious support vessel" description. Which will have people thinking it's something from the viking splash tour....
                              Last edited by pym; 6 January 2006, 06:16.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Sorry i think ive been misunderstood im refering to what such training (i.e Amphibious Troops Landings) will probly be referfed to under Irish Military Doctrine and im not just saying this what we should name the vessel.
                                British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                                Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                                [As the British flag comes down]

                                Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

                                Comment

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