Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OPV Replacement

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

    Could be the consequence of International agreements towards reducing emissions, conserving fuel, and reducing carbon footprint. Our ships from over there tend to be quite smoky. Changes could include a variable speed pumping system. The new IMO requirements will effect most shipping and a whole new chapter to Marine repair/upgrade Industry.
    Interestingly the addition of the Newest batch of OPV's to the RN have not been without difficulty. The first ship of the series needed much reconstructive work due to shortcomings at BAE. The latest ship HMS Spey has now joined for Training and has some interesting statistics. 50 man crew with 13 officers ( 3 OUT),One third crew NCO's many techs, another cohort on board are on their first ship. High tech spec in radars and FCS including optical, 16 tonne crane. They have a Three Watch system, two watches on board, one Watch on shore for training, and leave. The plum feature is that for 8 weeks on board, there is 4 weeks ashore also. I'd love to know how that work in Falklands or the Caribbean.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post

      Interestingly the addition of the Newest batch of OPV's to the RN have not been without difficulty. The first ship of the series needed much reconstructive work due to shortcomings at BAE. The latest ship HMS Spey has now joined for Training and has some interesting statistics. 50 man crew with 13 officers ( 3 OUT),One third crew NCO's many techs, another cohort on board are on their first ship. High tech spec in radars and FCS including optical, 16 tonne crane. They have a Three Watch system, two watches on board, one Watch on shore for training, and leave. The plum feature is that for 8 weeks on board, there is 4 weeks ashore also. I'd love to know how that work in Falklands or the Caribbean.
      1.5 crews per ship..... like the NS is supposed to have (pre last reorg anyways)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DeV View Post

        1.5 crews per ship..... like the NS is supposed to have (pre last reorg anyways)
        Yes for the Three watch system BUT eight weeks on and 4 weeks off needs a further basket of bodies. When we drew up CS4 submissions for the p20/p23 series , we proposed 3 crews for each ship, which later evolved as two crews per ship. When it was pushed down to 1.5 it laid the foundation for external and internal strife. DFR gurus should study manning systems of other navies. We used to have access to QRAAI's. We had copies in the BNO library.

        Comment


        • With all the discussions in the news media over the last few weeks regarding Ireland's lack of naval capability hopefully somebody can answer this for me:

          a) is it possible to upgrade the P50s and P60s to a level where they could be classed as corvettes (i.e. capable of a combat role)
          b) is it financially feasible to do so?

          I guess what I'm thinking of is an air defence radar and CMS (I saw that in 2018 the Philippines bought, through FMS, 2x Saab Sea-Giraffe and 9LV CMS for $25m, approx. €11m per ship), medium range Anti Air missiles (Sea Ceptor with soft launch avoids changes to host vessels?), Anti-ship missiles (Kongsberg NMS, or is there a soft launch missile), Anti-submarine torpedoes, sonar, any other radars and any necessary upgrades to host vessel e.g. onboard fire suppression systems (others would know what these are I unfortunately do not).

          Also, what about an upgrade to the 76mm main weapon with Strales and Vulcano capability, would that give a useful anti-air/anti-surface capability (or is this just a "cheap" paper only alternative that politicians would love)?

          Or is the only realistic solution for Ireland to buy some T31s.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ias View Post
            With all the discussions in the news media over the last few weeks regarding Ireland's lack of naval capability hopefully somebody can answer this for me:

            a) is it possible to upgrade the P50s and P60s to a level where they could be classed as corvettes (i.e. capable of a combat role)
            b) is it financially feasible to do so?

            I guess what I'm thinking of is an air defence radar and CMS (I saw that in 2018 the Philippines bought, through FMS, 2x Saab Sea-Giraffe and 9LV CMS for $25m, approx. €11m per ship), medium range Anti Air missiles (Sea Ceptor with soft launch avoids changes to host vessels?), Anti-ship missiles (Kongsberg NMS, or is there a soft launch missile), Anti-submarine torpedoes, sonar, any other radars and any necessary upgrades to host vessel e.g. onboard fire suppression systems (others would know what these are I unfortunately do not).

            Also, what about an upgrade to the 76mm main weapon with Strales and Vulcano capability, would that give a useful anti-air/anti-surface capability (or is this just a "cheap" paper only alternative that politicians would love)?

            Or is the only realistic solution for Ireland to buy some T31s.
            We have to be realistic here.
            P51 and P52 are both now over 20 year old. They were not built with the same strength steel as the P20s were, so they will not be in service for 40 years like the 20s were. Indeed, the quality of their build was revealed during the Chicotumi operation. A P50 turned back, its Bulwark damaged by waves, exposing the fore peak. A P20 responded in its place. I notice the P60s have a redesigned bow area to possibly deal with this weakness. P51 also had serious issues when it entered service.
            Do you really want to be uparming something that may be retired before the end of this decade anyway? Silk purse, sows ear etc.
            I'd prefer to do the opposite. Take the 76 off the P60s completely, replace with a smaller calibre, like a 25mm chain gun or something. Take away any notion that the P50 or P60 class are capable of acting as warships in an environment where they need to defend themselves.

            The EPC is a better alternative to either the T31 or an Up-armed OPV. Build a ship to do warship roles from the outset, knowing it will spend the majority of its working life doing constabulary roles. Not the other way around.
            That said, if it can still take it, the P60 would benefit well from the installation of a compact Air Search Radar. The absence of an operations room though may impact on the usefulness of such an installation. Bridge is busy enough.
            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ias View Post
              With all the discussions in the news media over the last few weeks regarding Ireland's lack of naval capability hopefully somebody can answer this for me:

              a) is it possible to upgrade the P50s and P60s to a level where they could be classed as corvettes (i.e. capable of a combat role)
              b) is it financially feasible to do so?

              I guess what I'm thinking of is an air defence radar and CMS (I saw that in 2018 the Philippines bought, through FMS, 2x Saab Sea-Giraffe and 9LV CMS for $25m, approx. €11m per ship), medium range Anti Air missiles (Sea Ceptor with soft launch avoids changes to host vessels?), Anti-ship missiles (Kongsberg NMS, or is there a soft launch missile), Anti-submarine torpedoes, sonar, any other radars and any necessary upgrades to host vessel e.g. onboard fire suppression systems (others would know what these are I unfortunately do not).

              Also, what about an upgrade to the 76mm main weapon with Strales and Vulcano capability, would that give a useful anti-air/anti-surface capability (or is this just a "cheap" paper only alternative that politicians would love)?

              Or is the only realistic solution for Ireland to buy some T31s.
              It would be impossible as the ships are not built to the classification of naval ships. They're coast guard ships with a 76mm gun. You can stick all the guns and missiles you want on then but if someone shoots back at you you're in serious trouble.
              Air search radar and sonar would be possible to enhance their surveillance capability.
              The 76mm gun is too big anyway. The 57mm gun is more suitable in the age of fast-moving and swarming unmanned aircraft and boats being more accurate and having a faster rate of fire.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                We have to be realistic here.
                P51 and P52 are both now over 20 year old. They were not built with the same strength steel as the P20s were, so they will not be in service for 40 years like the 20s were. Indeed, the quality of their build was revealed during the Chicotumi operation. A P50 turned back, its Bulwark damaged by waves, exposing the fore peak. A P20 responded in its place. I notice the P60s have a redesigned bow area to possibly deal with this weakness. P51 also had serious issues when it entered service.
                Do you really want to be uparming something that may be retired before the end of this decade anyway? Silk purse, sows ear etc.
                I'd prefer to do the opposite. Take the 76 off the P60s completely, replace with a smaller calibre, like a 25mm chain gun or something. Take away any notion that the P50 or P60 class are capable of acting as warships in an environment where they need to defend themselves.

                The EPC is a better alternative to either the T31 or an Up-armed OPV. Build a ship to do warship roles from the outset, knowing it will spend the majority of its working life doing constabulary roles. Not the other way around.
                That said, if it can still take it, the P60 would benefit well from the installation of a compact Air Search Radar. The absence of an operations room though may impact on the usefulness of such an installation. Bridge is busy enough.
                Being the bigger hull, I'll take Arrowhead 140 over the EPC.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Graylion View Post

                  Being the bigger hull, I'll take Arrowhead 140 over the EPC.
                  Why,
                  There has not been any EPC design revealed yet.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Graylion View Post

                    Being the bigger hull, I'll take Arrowhead 140 over the EPC.
                    There are plenty of steps before we would be in a position to decide, one benefit of the EPC could be the fact that standardise the fleet long term on it, with a mixture of the base line OPV's and the full fledged warship variants ie a mixture perhaps of the ASW and AAW/ASuW variants. But there's plenty of steps before we get to the point of looking at that imo.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                      Why,
                      There has not been any EPC design revealed yet.
                      Exactly so we have no idea if it would suit our needs, especially with regard to seakeeping and Accomodiation

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                        Why,
                        There has not been any EPC design revealed yet.
                        The basic tonnage has been put out though, the Arrowhead design will be heavier by a couple of thousand tons.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

                          The basic tonnage has been put out though, the Arrowhead design will be heavier by a couple of thousand tons.
                          unless the commission changes everything ...

                          Comment


                          • Many thanks to all for the responses and information.
                            Last edited by ias; 2 February 2022, 04:34.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X