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  • Originally posted by easyrider View Post
    No mention of flight deck or UAVs.
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    However, as we do not have any maritime UAVs, why would it be mentioned.
    Originally posted by easyrider View Post
    A flight deck for UAVs was in the OPV specs. Most of the other significant features of the design get a mention in the article, but not that.
    Because if it isn't UAV capable, there could be a court case"




    Originally posted by danno View Post
    GF thanks for the info re the FCS,should be an awesome set up given that I recall an officer of the NS is on record somewhere stating that the system on the Eithne is capable of detecting and engaging hostiles at either end of the Irish Sea whilst on station in Dublin Bay.
    The 76mm piece should considerably enhance this capability.
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    The 76 is actually comparable, bang wise to the bofors. Range is similar,(18000m) but the main difference is the completely enclosed automated feed and fire system.
    However engaging hostiles with a cannon at the other end of the irish sea is a tad far fetched. The Radar may be able to spot them, but the horizon is only 40 miles away at most. The Eos can only see as far as the horizon, unless you mount ot at the top of a very very high mast.
    Originally posted by danno View Post
    GF I checked that source and can attribute it to Lt Cdr M McGrath,in hindsight its a big ask of a 57mm to engage targets at the range referred to in the source,very unlikely even if the Iowas,in their prime,could do it.
    Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
    Is Eithne's FCS radar based?
    I've read similar but it is obviously the sea/air search radar that is capable of detecting targets at that range (obviously the Bofors can only engage what is in range).

    Orla & Ciara can fire 85 rpm (weighing 6 kg) to 16km - BAe Sea Archer optically controlled
    Eithne can fire 200 rpm (weighing 2.4 kg) to 17 km - Signal LIOD opticallu controlled (as far as I know linked to the radar but not 100% sure)

    According to A History of the Irish Naval Service (Aidan McIvor, 1994) - the Bofors 57mm can put more HE into a target in 30 seconds than any other naval gun under 100mm



    Originally posted by easyrider View Post
    According to the article, RHIB operation is limited to Sea State 4.


    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Show me another similar sized vessel in the British Isles/northern europe/bay of biscay that operates a helicopter.
    If the UK don't do it, the French don't do it, the Icelandics don't do it, the UK don't do it, what do you suippose that tells you?
    Could it be that the sea conditions do not permit worthwhile use of a helicopter? You can launch a RIB in state 4 and if conditions change quickly, still recover it in a 5 or 6, with an acceptable risk of damage. The same cannot be said for a helicopter.

    To remind you of what operating a helicopter from a sinilar size vessel, look at the following clip.. again.



    Landing on a much larger vessel.
    To quote the specs:
    Unrestricted operations of all equipment in sea state 5.

    The ability to continue all assigned tasks with some reduction in performance in sea state 6.

    Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
    Does any other nation use helicopters deployed from ships to patrol their territorial waters, EEZ or for fisheries protection?
    HMS Clyde has a helicopter deck is 1850 tonnes and conducts EEZ patrols off the Falklands, remaining full operational is SS6

    Comment


    • HMS Clyde has a helicopter deck is 1850 tonnes and conducts EEZ patrols off the Falklands, remaining full operational is SS6

      whats her pitch and roll limitations for operating a helo?

      From the clip above the guy trying to put down the Lynx was well outside Eithnes limitations..


      In answer to JJs questions FCS is the LIOD system

      Long recognized as the most comprehensive reference work available on the subject, this guide remains the only complete reference to the weapons currently in service in ships, submarines, and naval aircraft around the world. It is the only book of its type to explain the transformation of the U.S. Navy into a network-centric force, a transformation that has had immense consequences for choices of tactics, weapons, services, and the systems coordinating them. This guide also offers unparalleled coverage of the weapons, sensors, and command systems of the world's navies, both those the U.S. Navy works with and those it may have to fight.Written by one of the world's leading naval analysts, the book describes the weapons and systems in detail and examines the crucial relationship between them. Completely rewritten and newly illustrated, this edition makes a special effort to provide a clear and precise account of how weapon technology has changed to meet the new tactical and strategic challenges facing international naval forces today. Cutting-edge information is found throughout, enhanced by many new and rarely seen photographs and drawings. For example, this volume offers an unusually full account of the system of systems under development by the U.S. Navy and the other services to fight future limited regional wars. That initiative includes the changing role of space resources as they affect war on, over, and under the sea. This edition also benefits from the flood of material from Russia, whose weapons and systems are now owned and operated by numerous countries and are likely to be sold to many more.The guide provides uniquely detailed coverage of weapons developed and deployed in the Far East, an area that promises to be the liveliest scene of naval action in the future. Extensive sections are devoted to explaining the intricate workings of sensors and command systems. No other book, or even set of books, offers this sort of material in such accessible form. Its detail and completeness are backed by the authority of a long-established professional expert. For the most complete and up-to-date information about weapons in every navy in the world, this is the essential resource--a work that, in effect, can serve as a textbook of modern naval technology.


      Could be aimed used the TDS mounts on the bridge wings and in theory the57mm could be remotely fired from these, but normally the info went through the OPs room and was fed to the turret. Gun could also be fired remotely from Ops room.
      Last edited by hptmurphy; 9 October 2011, 23:32.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
        Steering flat is too good for em...
        Plenty of room in the cable locker.

        Comment


        • Plenty of room in the cable locker
          .

          Bosun store for'd was another home from home.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post

            Orla & Ciara can fire 85 rpm (weighing 6 kg) to 16km - BAe Sea Archer optically controlled
            Eithne can fire 200 rpm (weighing 2.4 kg) to 17 km - Signal LIOD opticallu controlled (as far as I know linked to the radar but not 100% sure)

            Our Peacocks no longer operate the Sea Archer. They were replaced some years ago with the Radamec units.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              HMS Clyde has a helicopter deck is 1850 tonnes and conducts EEZ patrols off the Falklands, remaining full operational is SS6
              It has a helicopter deck but does it use a helicopter deployed from the ship to patrol the islands EEZ?
              AFAIK there is no naval helicopters deployed with the force on the islands.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                I don't see a helicopter on either ship(one of which is not yet built-the other which has not yet been commissioned). I also see neither beartrap rail nor harpoon honeycomb on deck so I am wondering how they intend to secure the heli on a pitching deck.
                Could it be possible perhaps that these ships are designed to operate Helis in the sheltered MED? Be mindful also that the BAM has greater displacement than the P60s, at 2500T.
                The first of the Gowind class, L'Adroit, began her sea trials in July.

                Comment


                • Sea trials-by shipbuilders. Until she leaves the builders she isn't finished, trust me.


                  Is this gonna be another one of your circular arguments like the one about launching from a stern well?
                  Are you going to continue to push your point accross regardless of the evidence provided by others here who do this stuff for a living(not talking about myself).
                  The thread is about the Irish OPV for which a contract has been signed, the design finalised, and construction about to commence. Your input, while occasionally interesting, adds nothing to this discussion though. A helideck will not be added at this stage, no mater how vocal your protests. Let it go.
                  However the EPV of which there is another thread, is to be designed with a Proper helideck. Feel free to continue your discussion there.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by danno View Post
                    Have they brought foward construction,in the yard press release last July,at posts1273/1274 on this thread steel was to be first cut in May2012?
                    My understanding is because of the Push to get the Aircraft carrier modules built before the current UK government decides to cancel them completely, Appledore will complete their other scheduled work before when they expected to be free to commence Steel cutting on ours.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                    Comment


                    • The Portuguese NRP Vaina do Castelo is another example of an Atlantic OPV fitted with a helicopter deck. It's smaller than our new OPVs. This is the first of a new class of between 6 and 10 ships.

                      Comment


                      • A helicopter deck but no hangar. It can land a helicopter on occasion, but it does not embark one. Tell you anything? Seriously, let it go- the design is long finalised.

                        Comment


                        • The key being operational deployment.

                          A heli deck does not allow for operational deployment , merely the ability to land a helo.

                          Limited use when you have very little influence over the people who operate the helos.

                          Waste of space in that case. TEU storage areas will allow for recovery of UAV or ROVs,..as per specification.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • So what do you do when the OPV is on patrol 200 miles off the west coast and there's an emergency call from a sinking vessel 100 miles further out - send the UAV to watch them drown? Or a crew-member on the OPV falls down a ladder and is seriously injured? Or the ship is tasked with intercepting some drug smugglers or terrorists - can the UAV provide armed top-cover? Or the ship is deployed on anti-piracy duties off Somalia? (Well, we can dream...)

                            I know it's late in the process, but no steel has been cut as yet, and IMHO the lack of a heli-deck is a flaw in the design, a flaw that is not due to serious operational analysis but to a bad experience with Eithne and the Air Corps more than 20 years ago. These new ships will still be around in the 2040s. As General David Petraeus recently said in another context: "It's time to take off the rear-view mirrors and look to the future."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by easyrider View Post
                              So what do you do when the OPV is on patrol 200 miles off the west coast and there's an emergency call from a sinking vessel 100 miles further out - send the UAV to watch them drown? Or a crew-member on the OPV falls down a ladder and is seriously injured? Or the ship is tasked with intercepting some drug smugglers or terrorists - can the UAV provide armed top-cover? Or the ship is deployed on anti-piracy duties off Somalia? (Well, we can dream...)

                              I know it's late in the process, but no steel has been cut as yet, and IMHO the lack of a heli-deck is a flaw in the design, a flaw that is not due to serious operational analysis but to a bad experience with Eithne and the Air Corps more than 20 years ago. These new ships will still be around in the 2040s. As General David Petraeus recently said in another context: "It's time to take off the rear-view mirrors and look to the future."
                              Am in agreement with your opinion. Lack of flight deck with refuelling & HIFR facility as a minimum, but in reality lack of flight deck & hangar is a design flaw (also IMHO). To be building an OPV ca 2000t & not putting such a capability on it is not going to give good VFM over the next 30 yrs. The point made about the bad experience of P31 & Dauphin is a very valid one, but if you had such a capability on a hull & that hull was to eploy to somewhere like the Gulf Of Aden, then I think the IAC would be jumping at the chance to go to sea.

                              The NZ OPV is on a P51 hull, so it shows what can be done & you still have deck room aft for containers. Take away the weight issues with regard to the ice strengthening & you still have a very capable OPV (with room for a 76mm up front!)
                              Last edited by Dogwatch; 11 October 2011, 16:49.

                              Comment


                              • So what do you do when the OPV is on patrol 200 miles off the west coast and there's an emergency call from a sinking vessel 100 miles further out


                                What size ship are you putting your helo on and then what size helo are you dealing with?

                                Aviation at sea is not as simple as you think. The scenario as described above could be just putting your helo on site to watch what your UAV could have done without rescuing anyone.

                                The last experience was not about SAR at sea, The type of helo carried at sea by frigate type vessels is often there purely in an antisubmarine capacity...which we don't do anyway!

                                When your ideal navy has its own helicopters then you can have your ideal ship for them. For now even if the NS built a Nimitz class carrier....the AC wouldn't base an aircraft on it!!!

                                The sheer cost of making Eithne heli capable would have built a PV if it had been an option.

                                Why go down a track we know won't work while the helo arm of the DF haven't even got a naval suitable helo!
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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