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Thread: OPV Replacement

  1. #276
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    It must have been pretty nasty out at sea over the last few weeks. We seem to be experiencing something akin to a mini hurricaine season.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  2. #277
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Given the relative success of the Guardian design, would it be worth placing bets that the Roisin type would be top of the list for a P21 replacement? Looking at the Otago, which will be operating in conditions not unlike out own, it would be nice to have more than one vessel with a helideck, and the build process for them was pretty quick.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  3. #278
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    More Roisins would be a good type, A few 100 metre versions would be the job I'd say and with the bad weather you are talking about they seem to fare well what with the stabilisation systems.

  4. #279
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I read in Yesterdays Newspaper(Examiner) that Fine Gael spokesman on Defence, Billy Timmins, has called for an increase in resources available to the Naval service to carry out their duties in ever worsening sea conditions.

    i.e More ships.

    Vote FG.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  5. #280
    Private 3* Sea Toby's Avatar
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    As this thread has noted, there are many choices of OPVs off the shelf the Irish could choose from. I have noted before New Zealand received options from 21 different shipyards. In my opinion New Zealand chose well, ordering a proper sea lift ship which can be used for training and off shore patrols, two helicopter equipped offshore patrol vessels similar to the new Irish OPVs, and four inshore patrol vessels sized large enough to deal with the roaring 40s.

    While New Zealand will spread out the costs over a few years, they ordered enough ships at one time to see financial volume returns. Maybe its time Ireland ordered defence equipment in a similar matter, instead of buying a few of the same helicopters each year.

  6. #281
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    Today's Irish Times has an article (6/1/07 on page 4) on the subject of 3 new vessels for the NS.

    Points to note are:

    -Total cost in the region of €180m
    -Half of that will go on a 120 meter vessel that will be able to take part in coastal patrols but also in peace support including transporting APCs.
    -the other €90m will go on 2 approx 80m ships 'similar to the largest vessels in the current fleet' - presumably a reference to the P50 class
    -a group of civil servants and DF officers are to bring recommendations to the MinDef, who is expected to bring proposals to cabinet 'by the middle of the year'. Funnily enough.
    -this would be the single largest defence contract in the history of the state (not that this would be difficult to do)

    Its also worth noting that the article was written by Liam Reid (political reporter) rather than Lorna Siggins.

  7. #282
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Hurrah!

    Is it online?
    €45m will get you a lot of LPV.

    Thats not far off what the Kiwis spent for their entire replacement program.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  8. #283
    Bitter Boy
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    they also need to shell out a few bob

    to recruit a few more salior laddies and laddess

    and they need to throw a few bob into pay in order tokeep these


    The crews of the new vessels will be roughly the same as the current ones , i.e. 45 - 50. They whole deal is that the new replacement ships will be bigger and more comfortable for the crews, thereby making conditions more bearable.

    Going forward though, a nice increase in sea going allowance will be required.

  9. #284
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Okay according to the paper €80 million is going to be spent on 2 x 80 metre vessels. The Roisin and Niamh were commissioned in 1999 and 2001, they cost a total of €50 million. Hopefully inflation isn't that much and these will be state of the art naval vessels.

  10. #285
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Great news for the naval service and a major step up in our rapid reaction capability. Any ideas will the 120m vessel include a heli deck?

  11. #286
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Yes.

    Read either of the two very long threads dedicated to this topic.....


    (sigh..why do I bother)


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  12. #287
    Private 3* Sea Toby's Avatar
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    This is good news. I wonder who will build the ships? Hopefully we won't have to wait until summer.

  13. #288
    Bitter Boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Toby View Post
    This is good news. I wonder who will build the ships? Hopefully we won't have to wait until summer.
    Summer 2012

  14. #289
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit View Post
    Summer???? HA HA HA.
    Do you have any idea how long it takes to build a ship once contracts have been signed these days. This hasn't even gone to tender yet!
    He was wondering who would build it, not when it would be built.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  15. #290
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Yes.

    Read either of the two very long threads dedicated to this topic.....


    (sigh..why do I bother)
    Sorry,is this not one of them??:confused:

  16. #291
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post














    In case you missed it in FAQ. This is what the navy are referring to as P61(though it looks more like an A/P 61 to me)
    Because APOD couldnt be bothered.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  17. #292
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit View Post
    Summer???? HA HA HA.
    Do you have any idea how long it takes to build a ship once contracts have been signed these days. This hasn't even gone to tender yet!
    Much quicker than you would think. In New Zealand, Project Protector which consists of 7 vessels of 3 types, begun planning in 2002. Contracts were signed in July 2004. The last of the 7 vessels will be delivered in December this year. Planning for our ships has been ongoing for many years.(When did we start discussing it here?). Its an off the shelf design,(with modifications for our requirements) which should also speed things up in the building process.
    At least two of the three should be in service by the end of the decade.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  18. #293
    criodan
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Okay according to the paper €80 million is going to be spent on 2 x 80 metre vessels. The Roisin and Niamh were commissioned in 1999 and 2001, they cost a total of €50 million. Hopefully inflation isn't that much and these will be state of the art naval vessels.
    pardon my ignorance, but why is it? has the cost really jumped E30m? surely not if they are the same ships etc.... confused

  19. #294
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Inflation has increased 35% since 1999.

    50m x 35%=67.5m. Considering the mental rate of increase in the last few months(average 4% a month since july), its better that they over estimate the figures, rather than under estimate them. The price will only be agreed the day the contract is signed. Economically a lot can happen in the meantime.

    Remember also that the 2 ships will not be the same ship as the P50, they will be larger, improved versions. The size is not written in stone yet, its just a baseline.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  20. #295
    criodan
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    Holy moley it’s not long creeping up. I hope they spend a bit on comfort for those serving on them. There appears to be lot of talk of crews spending longer hours at sea these days and that DoD is comfortable with that. Well in return I hope they make the guys just as comfortable. I remember watching a program on US subs a few years ago and due the confined nature of the subs, crew got into bed as their replacement went to work. I think they coined it “bed warming”. Not all that nice. (have I just made it obvious that I am not a hardened soldier????

  21. #296
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Hotbunking is another term for that.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  22. #297
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    I have a question, is this new ship supposed to carry everything, vehicles stores ect that a mission like Liberia would require all in one go, or just the intial small amount of gear, with the rest ccoming in later, isn't that really whats going to decide it's size, if they want to bring everything, I think the MEKO might be a little on the small side.:confused:


    how many vehicles do we have in Liberia now?, mowags ect, if thats not against opsec.
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  23. #298
    Private 3* Sea Toby's Avatar
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    That is getting down to the root of the choices offered by the world's shipyards. Ireland doesn't necessarily have to offer helicopters for a peacekeeping mission, but I can't think of anything better to offer in a natural disaster.

    With New Zealand's MRV, the ministry of defence asked their army what would be their preferred specifications as far as carrying capacity of men and material. Their General decided to carry what they brought to the Bosnia campaign: 250 men and 390 lane meters of equipment, an infantry group.

    There have been critics of the size of their MRV, as it isn't large enough to carry a battalion, but only an infantry group.

    Its up to the government to decide with consultations with the army and the navy and the air corps. Its up to Ireland to decide what they will offer in UN peacekeeping/humanitarian missions. There is no need to buy a ship too large.

    The NZ enlarged infantry group the MRV can carry consists of 16 LAVs, 17 Pingauzers, 7 Unimogs, and a few other vehicles which can squeeze into 390 lane meters. Plus 33 20 ft containers. The ship can also carry 250 men, and 4 NH90 helicopters along with 1 Seasprite naval helicopter. Frankly, that isn't much.

    As far as costs is concerned, NZ bought four smaller inshore patrol boats above the Irish order. Both countries will buy or have bought a MRV and 2 OPVs. 180 million Euros seems enough for these three, considering NZ spent about 210 million Euros, the difference being about 7 million Euros each for the four inshore patrol vessels.
    Last edited by Sea Toby; 11th January 2007 at 18:08.

  24. #299
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The DOD and DF (army and NS) are currently in talks with reference to the specifications for these vessels.

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitter Boy View Post
    they also need to shell out a few bob

    Going forward though, a nice increase in sea going allowance will be required.
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