Thanks Thanks:  360
Likes Likes:  471
Dislikes Dislikes:  13
Page 2 of 97 FirstFirst 12341252 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 2411

Thread: OPV Replacement

  1. #26
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Villa Straylight
    Posts
    2,082
    Post Thanks / Like
    Noticed that too John, note also the light gun (25-30mm?) turret is not on the NS presentation.

    Sorry to have to ask the question. How much? (Assuming a sensor and weapons fit like the P50s ie, no sonar or air search radar, Oto 76mm and .50cal secondary).

    The price is going to be critical, even assuming the NS can adequately 'sell' the idea that this would be an ideal disaster relief vessel, and force multiplier in terms of training and resupply.

    Also, we is two budgets away from an election. Anything that could be spent on this could just as well be spent on social welfare or other hand outs, more conventional vote getters. Additonally, theres the fact that the crusties and SF and Joe Higgins would call this this an "aircraft carrier designed to aid the repression of third world countries, steal their resources and kill their children". None of these are exactly confidence inspiring in the short term. At a guess, the NS is playing a long game, hoping for a decision early in the life of the next Govt.

  2. #27
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    The choices are simple. Select as ship such as this and ensure the provision of the service that the NS provide, or break another promise, and watch as the NS return to the bad old days of the early 70s.

    The Greens in principal, agreed to an 8 ship navy when they made submissions to the White paper(though most likely they would have asked for an 8 ship,sail powered unarmed coastguard). As I have said in the other thread,its all to do with how the DF/Government market this to the voter. Is it a "state of the art warship" or "a multi purpose vessel, enhanced to carry Emergency aid on its decks,this saving the taxpayer the cost of hiring a Commercial vessel".

    Blohm and Voss specialise in shipbuilding in a modular fashion,quickly and cheaply.

    The design differences between both vessels are minimal, but you must remember that the Current L.E. Eithne looks nothing like the original proposals. Likewise,the P50 class look very little like their base design,the Canadian Guardian class "Vigilant".

  3. #28
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Villa Straylight
    Posts
    2,082
    Post Thanks / Like
    . Select as ship such as this and ensure the provision of the service that the NS provide, or break another promise, and watch as the NS return to the bad old days of the early 70s.
    Is there a promise or are the NS chancing their arm?

    As I have said in the other thread,its all to do with how the DF/Government market this to the voter
    Not quite how it works in this instance. Something like this is a tough sell, its highly unlikely that it will win votes, but it most certainly could lose the Govt votes. On that basis, this is a three way 'discussion' between D/Fin, the Government and the NS/DOD, marketing it to the voter is important, but not nearly as important as marketing it to the Cabinet and D/Fin. The DF as a whole has tried in the past to come up with great and shiny plans, making perfect sense to all concerned, only to have them shot down ignominiously at a central level. Unless the NS has a prior committment, or a very good argument backed up by proponents at cabinet, this is going nowhere, regardless of how good an idea it is.

  4. #29
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    I don't speak for the NS. I am not,nor never was a member of same. I have no idea how the Naval service are going to promote this vessel to the Important government departments. All I do Know is it has been in the planning stages for the last 2 years. The army Wanted 80 APCs. It got 65. The air Corps wanted 6/8 new helis. It got 6,the other 2 have not been ruled out yet. The capital expense here is similar,and the usefulness is similar. I fail to see how the other wings of the DF can get such large projects without complaint, and the NS, the only section of the DF that preforms its role 24 hours a day 365 days a year, can not secure theirs.

    A realist attitude is pragmatic. However a "can-do" attitude will be more beneficial in the long term.

  5. #30
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Villa Straylight
    Posts
    2,082
    Post Thanks / Like
    All I'm saying is don't get yer hopes up until you hear some response or commentary from Minister Cowen, until that point all of this is just a few nice pictures.

  6. #31
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hence the Title of the thread from the beginning.

  7. #32
    6-40509-04014-7 yooklid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Right behind you.....
    Posts
    2,921
    Post Thanks / Like
    Fishery protection Tender vessel?
    Meh.

  8. #33
    C/S
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,026
    Post Thanks / Like
    Going to the whole political arguement, while in an irish context defence has never been a vote winner, its not a vote looser either. The PC-9 cost 60 million euros for example and I'm pretty sure 99% of the general public has no idea what they do or why they were bought. Given the economy is doing well, we're becoming richer its possible to speculate that this vessel would be more than affordable.

  9. #34
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,638
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    The design differences between both vessels are minimal, but you must remember that the Current L.E. Eithne looks nothing like the original proposals. Likewise,the P50 class look very little like their base design,the Canadian Guardian class "Vigilant".
    The Vigilant is the first vessel built using the "Guardian Class" Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV). You can see what Goldie means.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #35
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    Don't forget the future New Zealand OPV is based on Roisin's design.



    And Roisin was originally supposed to look like this.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #36
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy
    Just remembered something..alll the current ships were designed and register as fishery protection vessels technically making them commercial vessels and not warships..thus making them cheaper to build....

    what will the satus of any new vessel be....given the costs associated with building dedicated warships

    Quote from Cdr Mellett.
    "Steel is cheap and air is free".
    Size is not a factor.

  12. #37
    2/Lt Bosco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Tipperary
    Posts
    1,649
    Post Thanks / Like
    Man that nis one nice looking ship. IF it comes on line it looks like it would seriously give the NS a significant boost in there capabilities, wheter it comes on line is a differnt story.
    Lifes a bitch, so be her pimp!

  13. #38
    Closed Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Villa Straylight
    Posts
    2,082
    Post Thanks / Like
    Steel is cheap and air is free".
    Goldie, I discussed this with Cdr Mellet 5 years ago, and he used the exact same quote to me then. The NS have been pushing for this vessel since before then, and they are making very little headway. Even the 3 for 3 replacement is very much not settled yet. This is an issue that is still a long way for resolution.

  14. #39
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Finner Air Station
    Posts
    516
    Post Thanks / Like
    Assuming its as Multi-Role as it infers does mean there could possible if ever required be equipped if operating in an area were Fluid/Conflict Situation could endanger the ship could we see the possiblity of other armanents being fitted to vessel such as Shorads (SAMS) or someform of Surface to surface to surface missile (SSM) or is this type of weapons fits even possible be fitted on this type of vessel?? i.e Meko 200 MRV

    Nollaig Shona Diobh Agus Bliain Shona Nua go Leír
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  15. #40
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    I assume it will be armed appropriate to the risk. I notice RN vessels are being retrofitted with Anti Small Boat Miniguns.
    SSMs or SAMs are no longer considered an appropriate stand alone defence for a single vessel, given current threats.

  16. #41
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Finner Air Station
    Posts
    516
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hmmm interesting just after getting the An Cosantoir in question interesting article be the Cmdr Mellet just toward the end it does note teh other main competing vessels in such a class i.e MultiRole Vessel such as the Danish Absalon Class and New Zealand Tenix MRV Curiously was browseing internet yesterday and came across other Defence Forum which was disscussing the NZ goverment had ceased work on there MRV because of Health & Safety fears about the vessels of fears thats it was not water tight and could be prone to leakage has anyone else came acroos such info before or wat?? Personnally I would love to see the Absalon class in service it would offer a degree of interoperability within any proposed EU/UN Deployable force i.e withe The Danes etc... But it looks like the Bloom & Bloss (Or Whatever its called) is favoured by the Navy and does like a great vessel and would the Navy And Rest Of The Key Partners In The Defence Forces A tremandous Boost!! Thats will never hurt in the P.R department aswell..

    Nollaig Shona Diobh Agus Bliain Shona Nua Diobh go Leír
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  17. #42
    Private 2*
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    21
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi all from NZ just thought i would give a update on the RNZN MRV.Work was halted temporarily while some issues were sorted launch date is still expected around may/june 06,pictures available in oct05 issue nz navy news.Other vessels in project protecter are progressing on target with all seven vessels to come online within next 12-18 months.

  18. #43
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Here And There...
    Posts
    10,159
    Post Thanks / Like
    An NS officer wrote a very interesting article on this subject in December's An Cosantóir...

  19. #44
    C/S
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    415
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yeah Cdr Mellet, Its been mentioned in another thread

  20. #45
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi
    Hi all from NZ just thought i would give a update on the RNZN MRV.Work was halted temporarily while some issues were sorted launch date is still expected around may/june 06,pictures available in oct05 issue nz navy news.Other vessels in project protecter are progressing on target with all seven vessels to come online within next 12-18 months.
    NZ Navy News Oct 05

  21. #46
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Finner Air Station
    Posts
    516
    Post Thanks / Like
    Just one questions about the Meko 200 MRV how exactly is equipment/cargo loaded below deck is it even possible to store the likes of the Iveco DROPS,Iveco TCV/CSS Vechicles etc.. can these along with other cargo be stored under deck with this design or is it just vechicles/Large Cargo can be carried above deck only???
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  22. #47
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    you already know too much
    Posts
    33,440
    Post Thanks / Like
    Below deck? As far as I can gather all large stowage is at deck level. People and compact stores can be handled below deck. Remember this vessel will only be doing resupply for a small percentage of its service.

    Have you visited the Blohm and Voss website?

  23. #48
    Man, I'm pretty! The Sultan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Aron City
    Posts
    1,822
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    As I have said in the other thread,its all to do with how the DF/Government market this to the voter. Is it a "state of the art warship" or "a multi purpose vessel, enhanced to carry Emergency aid on its decks,this saving the taxpayer the cost of hiring a Commercial vessel".
    Hmmm...Well with the recent announcement of a Rapid Response Specialist Corps and the Irish Volunteer Corps, the latter description may well be the case. It might just make for plain sailing through the tender process.

    Its just such a lovely ship.

  24. #49
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Finner Air Station
    Posts
    516
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yea, Looks that way that only small/medium stores will be kept below deck such as Rations,Ammonitions,Fuel and other essestiantial stores. I wonder is there any form of large side access double doors etc so to load such equipment/stores from quayside??? personnally i would have taught during the first weeks of set up stage of Liberia Type Scenario this vessl would be very busy and would be diverted from it usual OPV taskings etc... (going to and from the mission Area Of Operation AO bringing in supplies) And I would say it would be interesting to see the likes of Mowags And Iveco DROPS And Others TCVs being carried above decks together and would be proud sight displaying some overseas deployable assets altogether.
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  25. #50
    Man, I'm pretty! The Sultan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Aron City
    Posts
    1,822
    Post Thanks / Like
    Whats the deal with the difference between the pictures on the first post, and in the picture in Goldies post here? Im talking about the location of the funnels.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •