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Thread: OPV Replacement

  1. #51
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyjim
    Whats the deal with the difference between the pictures on the first post, and in the picture in Goldies post here? Im talking about the location of the funnels.
    see post 26,27,28 this thread.

    Please read the thread in full. you could find your questions have already been answered, before you even need to resort to the search function.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blue Max
    Yea, Looks that way that only small/medium stores will be kept below deck such as Rations,Ammonitions,Fuel and other essestiantial stores. I wonder is there any form of large side access double doors etc so to load such equipment/stores from quayside??? personnally i would have taught during the first weeks of set up stage of Liberia Type Scenario this vessl would be very busy and would be diverted from it usual OPV taskings etc... (going to and from the mission Area Of Operation AO bringing in supplies) And I would say it would be interesting to see the likes of Mowags And Iveco DROPS And Others TCVs being carried above decks together and would be proud sight displaying some overseas deployable assets altogether.
    Its been done since 1978. Park a few panhards on the decks aft, all other stores can be broken into small lots capable of being stored below decks without needing any doors larger than those that already exist. Even Eithne has been reconfigured to carry 2 Mowags and 4 TEUs on her helideck.Click here for what they done in Liberia

  2. #52
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    TEU they are 20ft container correct aswell as Two Mowags thats not a bad load would the Mowags be kept inside the Hanger or were exactly???
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  3. #53
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    What part of "on her helideck" confuses you? Any chance of a bit of punctuation now and again? It would make your posts a lot easier to read.

  4. #54
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Will Try,NO Promises LOL!! Sorry missed the last bit of your previous post thanks for quick reponse are the TEUs Container??? and has it ever been conducted to see will it work i.e training scenario to load Two Mowags and the Four TEUs???
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  5. #55
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    TEU=Twenty feet equivalent unit. (20 ft. container).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEU

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    TEU=Twenty feet equivalent unit. (20 ft. container).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEU

    Does anyone know the budget cost assainged to the ns on new ship costs???

  7. #57
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    I dont know but it has to be close to 100,000,000 taking into consideration all the hi-tech dealies on board
    Last edited by McCarthy; 3rd January 2006 at 13:19.

  8. #58
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    I beg to differ but only at a guess another board member quoted that the Danish Absalon was priced at about 10000000 million Euros so considerin this vessel was fitted it far supiour weapons fit also had a large hanger for helo ops aswell the fact it was true RO-RO capable vessel which would ad imenseley to the cost i would reckon if this price realistically reflected to the Absalon then i would reckon the Bloon And Bloos equivilant would come in it at at sligthy under this at aroun 60/70 million accounting for several wrote above that the the Bloom And Bloos does not have e.g Hanger,RO-RO capable or superior Weapons Fit etc... This would be my reckoning on the figure personally.
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  9. #59
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    Sorry, I meant to say 100,000,000.
    After comparing the specifications of P51 and the MEKO 200 MRV, the most obvious difference between the two is size ( the mekos displacement is more than double that of Roisin). As Cdr. Mark Mellet said in An Cosantoir "steel is cheap and air is free" so size isnt really a big factor when it comes to cost. Roisin cost around 30 or 60 million I think.
    So the equipment such as navigational equipment and armament should play a big part but from what I can see there is only an Oto Melara 76mm near the funnels and another one on the bow gun deck-not a considerable amount of money. A goalkeeper on either side would be a good addition.
    Would the helicopter be included in the ships costs? because there isnt a lot of space for a helicopter suited to the relief role. In my view the perfect helicopter would be a Chinook heavy lift which could take cargo and supplies in case of a disaster and could also take troops in case of trouble should we be required to go.
    There will be two 8 person ribs on-board which are really cheap considering how much they're used (43,000 each if Im not mistaken)...
    Ive asked a member of the Navy will it cost more than 60 million and he said that the final cost will far exceed that amount.
    So, in conclusion..the ships cost is..any bodys guess

  10. #60
    Commander-in-Chief futurepilot's Avatar
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    ^^^
    I think everyone would like to see the chinook in service here but what are the chances of that happening. Even the Merlin and NH90 would probably be beyond reach.
    Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant

  11. #61
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Lets keep the Heli discussion for the Air Corps section Please!

    Naval vessels are not as expensive as one would think. Niamh and Roisin cost £23m each, and it is fair to say that they are no more sophisticated than the proposed vessel. Eithne, during her troubled construction, cost twice what was estimated in 1984, and took about £27m from the states coffers. That said, her weapon and sensor fit was far more complex than that seen on the P50 class.

    In 1997, one for one replacement of the P20 class was estimated at £23m per ship. This was assuming that they would be replaced by similar OPV to the P50. The first £4.5m being spent this year on the initial planning and consultation process. A replacement of L.E. Eithne with a similar type of vessel(HPV) was estimated at £30m.(Note all figures in IR£). It is worth Noting that the report from which I take these figures, believed the total expendeture for an entire replacement of the fleet over an 18 year period, could be achieved through re investment of savings made since the Re Organisation of the Defence Forces in 1994.

    This estimate did not factor in any role other than that of Fisheries Protection, and a Minimalist Multitasking Naval capability.(1998 report to the Steering Group on the Review of the Irish Naval service and Air Corps)

    Another cost option being utilised in other Naval forces, including the RN, is that of leasing the vessels. A vessel such as the one being considered here, would serve a "less wealthy" nation well, in years to come. We would lease the vessel from the Builders in a Public/Private Partnership(as is the case in the Maritime college), with the option at the end of a fixed term to either Buy the vessel outright, or return it to the Builders, who are then free to sell it on the buoyant(no pun intended) second hand Naval market. 20 year old Naval vessels are quite popular with Eastern European and South American Navies.

    Another consideration, given the proposed humanitarian role, is that some of the other Government departments and NGOs would be encouraged to fund elements of the vessel, mission specific to the use they consider they would make of it. Its a small fraction, but still a way of dispersing the cost.

    But at the end of the day, if a good enough case is made for such a vessel, the Government will provide the finance, or failing that, will go with the over used begging bowl to Europe for some of the Funding. Remember that if we decide to claim mineral rights further than the 200mile limit, this will be of benefit to the EU, not just Ireland.

    Its a bigger picture than just Ireland funding a naval vessel for Ireland.

  12. #62
    My tank is bigger... California Tanker's Avatar
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    Hmm... Aegis destroyers are going for just shy of a billion dollars apiece. Must be all those special $20,000 toilet seats and $1,500 spanners.

    NTM
    Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

  13. #63
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Possibly something to do with the SPY1D Phased array too.

  14. #64
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Curious if you put other major recent Defence contracts in perspective to the proposed one of for this Multi Role Vessel (MRV) the two most recent major procurement contracts for the Air Corps has been the Pilatus PC-9Ms and the Agusta/Eurocopter Deals have both exceded over €60million in cost aswell as associated support infrastructure extra etc... and the Army contract for the Mowags APCs has exceded €80million so far (inculding recent ordered ones i.e 30mm ones)

    So if the Naval Service was to place a order for a vessel such as the MRV it would be in keeping with recent Defence procurements cost wise possibly costing between €60-80million for this vessel.
    Just Interesting comparsion I taught...
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  15. #65
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The Meko 200 Frigates in use by Greece cost $1.2bn for 3. However they have a much more complex sensor equipment,engine and weapon fit to the ship being proposed here. The NZ Navy for example are currently building a fleet of 7 ships, for NZ$500m,(€285m) consisting of 2 OPV an MRV and 4 Inshore patrol vessels.

    http://www.tenix.com/Main.asp?ID=971&ListID=58

  16. #66
    Aha: Death=Preconception Lordinajamjar's Avatar
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    If the following financial report is anything to go by, then I would guess that there is good chance that the ns will get exactly what they are asking for.
    http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0104/exchequer.html

  17. #67
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    When you consider that the current fleet due for replacement were for the most part buillt during a time of recession, when the state hadn't 2 pennies(phingins) to rub together, it makes the case all the more logical. But hey, I'm sure there is a tribunal around the corner that they could throw that money at instead...

  18. #68
    Aha: Death=Preconception Lordinajamjar's Avatar
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    If the following financial report is anything to go by, then I would guess that there is good chance that the ns will get exactly what they are asking for.
    http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0104/exchequer.html

  19. #69
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Hopefully it would be great to see further investment in the Irish Naval Service hopefully in the shape of the MRV and then Two vessels in the P50 class, they would enhance are capabilty by a huge amount and give the Key Parthners in the Defence forces a great asset to use for enhanceing are skills in area such as Tactical Anphibious Warfare Deployment etc aswell as providing a Training vessel for recruits and cadets and for the Maritime College that has been mentioned previously on this thread and acourse a new OPVs to add to the fleet..
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  20. #70
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The simulators in the Maritime college are better than what any training vessel could provide. Lets walk before we can run. A decent replacment for Emer first. Dont even mention things like
    Tactical Anphibious Warfare Deployment
    . Warfare is a dirty word when you are hoping that the EU will fund a portion of the building costs.

  21. #71
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    I meant that in reality that the Defence Forces will be hopefully be using the likes of the MRV for Amphious Warfare Training aswell as other tasks as a training vessel etc.. im not suggesting we advocat this to the EU when we go to them looking for Aid to assist the Naval Service in purchasing such a vessel.

    We that would primarily use thr MRV type for not just likes of Amphibious Warfare Training (which it wouldnt be anyways it spend the majority of life patroling the EEZ etc.. thats what i was trying to emply with my previous thread.
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  22. #72
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    stop using those words....

  23. #73
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Maybe this a bit more Politacally Correct or "P.C" what about "Amphibious Tactical Operations" does sound like it would be bit more like our style... and not to in the face such as a word like (Warfare)
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  24. #74
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    Tactical sounds far too military for most people in this country's liking!

    Leave it at the just vague enough "amphibious support vessel" description. Which will have people thinking it's something from the viking splash tour....
    Last edited by pym; 6th January 2006 at 06:16.

  25. #75
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Sorry i think ive been misunderstood im refering to what such training (i.e Amphibious Troops Landings) will probly be referfed to under Irish Military Doctrine and im not just saying this what we should name the vessel.
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

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