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  • Originally posted by ZULU View Post
    Could be €10m if they get rid of the RDF.
    there's €5m already allotted in this year's budget, 10m from RDF would only materialise next year & wouldn't appear overnight.

    Comment


    • The RDF budget will go well below 10m on its own, prob sub 5mil.

      Ok it wont appear overnight, but it could take as few as 2 months
      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

      Comment


      • 1. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence the age of each ship in the Naval Service; the schedule for replacement of each ship; the costs involved in the replacement; if safety or other concerns have been raised as to the suitability of each ship for continued usage by the Naval Service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34970/09]

        Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The following are the ages of the eight ships in the current flotilla: LE Emer, 31 years; LE Aoife, 30 years; LE Aisling, 29 years; LE Eithne, 25 years; LE Ciara, 25 years; LE Orla, 24 years; LE Róisín, ten years; and LE Niamh, eight years.

        Naval vessels have a minimal lifespan of approximately 30 years. Accordingly, three ships are due for replacement now and over the next few years - LE Emer, commissioned in 1978, LE Aoife, commissioned in 1979 and LE Aisling, commissioned in 1980.

        Following a detailed examination of the needs of the Naval Service within my Department, a vessel replacement strategy for the Naval Service was put in place. The strategy combined with a continuous process of refurbishment will ensure that the operational capability of the Naval Service is maintained at a satisfactory level.

        Following Government approval in July 2007, a tender competition for the purchase of replacement vessels for the Naval Service commenced. The competition provides for the potential purchase of up to five replacement vessels - two offshore patrol vessels, OPVs, with an option of a third and one extended patrol vessel, EPV, with an option on a second. The options that I mentioned provide an effective value for money opportunity, at locked in prices, to provide replacements for Naval Service vessels which will reach the end of their service life in the years immediately following the current three vessel replacement programme.

        In so far as the OPVs are concerned, the tender competition has progressed to the stage where we now have a preferred bidder in place and contract negotiations are all but concluded. However, no contract has yet been signed as this requires Government approval on funding. This will be considered in the context of the Estimates and budgetary process for 2010 which will include consideration of the McCarthy report.

        It would not be appropriate for me to comment further at this stage pending the outcome of these deliberative processes nor would it be appropriate to divulge the proposed cost of the replacement OPVs as this information is commercially sensitive and the procurement process has not yet been completed.

        On the larger EPVs, my Department intends to complete the contract negotiations for the OPVs before the second stage of the EPV competition is initiated. As with the OPVs, any decision to award a contract for the purchase of an EPV must be approved by the Government.

        With regard to safety, there is a programme of continuous planned and preventative maintenance to ensure that all Naval Service vessels are kept in a seaworthy condition and the Naval Service will send ships to sea only in such a condition. As Minister for Defence, the health and safety of all Defence Forces personnel and compliance with the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act 2005 and the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007 are of utmost importance to me.
        The acquisition of modern new vessels will ensure that the service will be fully equipped to carry out its day-to-day roles in enforcing the State’s sovereign rights over our waters and our fisheries and meeting Ireland’s obligations in the area of maritime safety and security and fisheries protection.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • Read between the lines, this is actually good news, for a change.

          Naval Service Vessels.

          15. Deputy Damien English asked the Minister for Defence his views on the recommendation in the Report of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes that the vessel replacement programme for the Naval Service be extended over a longer timeframe than initially envisaged; if it is intended to implement this recommendation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34785/09]

          44. Deputy Kathleen Lynch asked the Minister for Defence if he will extend the vessel replacement programme for the Naval Service flotilla over a longer timeframe. [34856/09]

          Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 and 44 together.

          The recommendation in the Report of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes was that the Naval Service Vessel Replacement Programme be extended over a longer timeframe than initially envisaged.

          In effect, we are in compliance with this recommendation, when you consider that the ships are supposed to have a nominal lifespan of 30 years. Originally, the vessel replacement programme was due to run from 2008 to 2012 but, subject to Government approval on funding, the earliest that a replacement vessel can now be delivered will be 2012 or possibly early 2013, with further replacement vessels following in subsequent years – the details of which will not be finalised until a contract is signed for the proposed replacement Offshore Patrol Vessels.

          In effect this will mean that the lifespan of the current vessels will be extended as they will not now be replaced until they have been in service for at least 34 years.

          The Naval Vessel Replacement Programme will be considered as part of the Estimates and budgetary process for 2010. This will include consideration of the report of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes, and the decisions on all of the issues arising will be a matter for the Government.

          It would not be appropriate for me to comment further at this stage pending the outcome of these deliberative processes.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • The Naval Service Vessel replacement programme will be advanced within the
            resources made available by Government.
            So now that the Program for Government has been agreed, and the Greens are aboard for the budget at least, can we assume the money for ships will be approved quickly? Its almost november....


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • The estimates process for capital hasn't formally started yet, for a range of obvious reasons. I would imagine that white smoke may not appear until after the Budget, whenever that may be, given the multi-annual nature of the spend.

              Comment


              • We will know at the time of the Estimates (before the budget)

                Comment


                • But that isn't what the minister has been saying all along! Surely the down payment earmarked for this year is this years amount, and what follows next year should not hinder contracts being signed today?

                  If that is the case, will we have to wait until the budget for the final years payment is secured before going ahead?


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • This years allocation will only be used if the contract is signed this year.

                    Comment


                    • Well, the Estimates will provide an indication, but there are always changes in the Budget itself. And this year is likely to be more volatile than most.

                      Goldie, DeV is entirely correct, a Govt decision will be needed before any contract is signed, after which this years allocation will be paid out (or as much as is necessary), and a committment entered into for the next number of years.

                      Comment


                      • Nobody at any stage has called for their cancelation, have they, even mc Carthy.

                        The expensive part of the NS is its manpower costs. No point in having lots of people sitting in Haulbowline without any seaworthy ships. Secondly, you find that we have no choice but to renew our fleet given our Eu obligations.

                        Comment


                        • If a contract is signed this year the allocation cut well be used, if not it goes back into State coffers.

                          McCarthy proposed that the contracts be postponed

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            If a contract is signed this year the allocation cut well be used, if not it goes back into State coffers.

                            McCarthy proposed that the contracts be postponed
                            That isn't what McCarthy said.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by paul g View Post
                              The expensive part of the NS is its manpower costs. No point in having lots of people sitting in Haulbowline without any seaworthy ships. Secondly, you find that we have no choice but to renew our fleet given our Eu obligations.
                              The new ships (Roisin & Niamh) have smaller crews (44) than the older ones (P21 class) (46)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                                That isn't what McCarthy said.
                                Afraid it is:

                                the Group recommends that this replacement programme be extended over a longer timeframe than initially envisaged.

                                Comment

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