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  • Originally posted by easyrider View Post
    Seawater erosion? Did the anodes not work?

    Microbiological contamination? What does that mean? Did the antifouling not work?
    Surely a simple scratch that went unnoticed could start that off...
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

    Comment


    • You assume that the contamination came from Outside the hull. It is equally possible that an internal tank caused the breakdown from within. Seawater on one side and other contaminants on the other, if not looked after could theoretically cause degradation...


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by easyrider View Post
        Navantia Launches First Naval Action Ship for Spanish Navy (BAM in Spanish)

        The San Fernando-Puerto Real shipyard on October 16 launched “P41 Meteoro,” the first of four Maritime Action Ships for the Spanish Navy. .....

        This vessel is the first in the initial series of four Navantia-built BAM ships for the Spanish navy, according to Executive Order signed on 31 July 2006, but is expected to eventually involve a total of 10 units. Delivery of the lead ship is planned for late 2010....

        It is a vessel of moderate size, high performance, great versatility in terms of missions, a high level of commonality with other Navy ships and reduced acquisition and service life costs.

        Its main missions are:
        - Protection and escorting other ships
        - Control of shipping
        - Control and neutralization of terrorist and piracy
        - Operations against drug trafficking and human trafficking
        - Rescue and Salvage
        - Support for crisis situations and humanitarian
        - Control of fishing laws
        - Control of environmental legislation and anti-pollution

        Main characteristics:
        - Length overall: 93.90 m
        - Maximum Beam: 14.20 m
        - Height to Flight Deck: 7.2 m
        - Full load displacement: 2,575 t
        - Draft: 4.4 m
        - Maximum speed: 20.5 kts
        - Range (at 15 knots): 8,000 miles
        - Crew: 35
        - Additional capacity: 35 people.



        Very Nice. I'll take 2. Biy.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by goldie fish
          very nice. I'll take 2. Biy.

          lol

          "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


          Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by dirtyshirt View Post
            You assume that the contamination came from Outside the hull. It is equally possible that an internal tank caused the breakdown from within. Seawater on one side and other contaminants on the other, if not looked after could theoretically cause degradation...
            Correct Dirtyshirt, this is usually found in Diesel oil bunker tanks, but has been found in bilges also. It has been known to cause 25 mm dia. holes to quickly appear,a 40 mm dia
            hole sounds very big, either way if it is below the water line it is a big problem. It is caused by microbes growing in the tank / bilge water and attacking the steel in a localised spot. that is all I know after that it is over to the Chemests for an explaination. There are additives that will prevent it happening, also the fuel / bilge water can be analized ( for a Price).

            If the corrosion was from the outside it would probably cover a large area, but not always.

            This has been found in new ships as well as old, I suppose the longer the ship has been around the more it has been exposed to risk, but it would not support the argumenent for new shpis, increased running costs for the old vessels is the usuall reason for renewing tonnage.

            Comment


            • "There are additives that will prevent it happening, also the fuel / bilge water can be analized ( for a Price)."

              Analise bilge water for a price? sounds strangely refreshing.

              Comment


              • Analysed maybe?

                Analised Bilge Water

                Sounds like the Naval Service Offical Cologne!
                "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                Comment


                • From Committee of public accounts...

                  :A number of the ships in the Naval Service are coming to the end of their useful life and a tender competition for a ship replacement programme commenced in 2007. The competition sought tenders for the purchase of two offshore patrol vessels, OPVs, and one extended patrol vessel, EPV, with an option for up to two additional vessels. It is a multi-stage process. During 2008, stage 1 of the tender process was completed and tenders were received in response to stage 2. Following tender evaluation, a preferred bidder has been selected and detailed and extensive contract negotiations are now close to conclusion. The decision to proceed with the final award of contract to purchase the OPVs will be subject to Government approval and agreement on funding. Subject to such approval, it is expected that the new vessels will be delivered for acceptance by the Naval Service on a phased basis from 2012. In relation to the larger EPV, stage 1 of the competition has been completed. Stage 2 will not be initiated until the contract for the OPVs has been concluded.
                  ...
                  contd.
                  ...
                  Deputy Thomas P. Broughan:As a follow-up on the point about equipment in Chad, we appear to have had a number of such issues during the years of our UN involvement. Would it be fair to say there is a general problem that the equipment we give to our troops and Naval Service and Air Corps tends to be antique? We have a situation where it is almost like a Dad’s army given that we have 30 year old vessels, allegedly with holes in the hulls of a number of them. There was a problem with choppers. We got the small LTAVs recently but we always seem to be chasing the ballgame. Surely that is unfair.

                  We have heard a similar debate on a much bigger scale in a totally different context in respect of the armed forces of the United Kingdom in its war theatre. Is there a danger if we do not provide up-to-date equipment for our Army and Navy, given that everybody agrees the Naval Service and Air Corps have performed outstandingly well in recent times in preventing cigarette and drug smuggling? We know their performance across a range of activities in supporting all kinds of civil power with the armies. For example, I notice that on the ships it will be 2012 or 2014 before a replacement programme is commenced yet we are required by the EU to spend a large sum of money. Has it not been the case from almost our first big involvement, which may have been the Congo or Cyprus, that we always seem to have a problem with equipment?

                  Mr. Michael Howard:
                  ...There is no question that a particular issue arises in regard to the Naval Service. Ships are built with a 30 year life-span and three of our ships - LE Emer, LE Aoife and LE Aisling - are at or about the 30 years. It is unfortunate this has arisen when the country is facing a genuine fiscal crisis. Everybody has talked about that. We have initiated the replacement process with the intention of modernising the fleet but that decision is now in the hands of Government in the Estimates context.

                  Last edited by Goldie fish; 17 November 2009, 19:58.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • looks like the navy is going backwards with no funding for future ships then

                    Comment


                    • Approval for funding is at a very advanced stage.
                      Naval Service Vessels.

                      29. Deputy Ruairí Quinn asked the Minister for Defence the assurances he will give the House of the Oireachtas in regard to the safety and effectiveness of the current naval vessels; if they are not to be replaced until they have completed at least 34 years of service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42183/09]

                      Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): While Naval Service vessels have a nominal lifespan of around 30 years, three ships in the current flotilla will have completed at least 34 years of service before they are likely to be replaced – namely LE Emer commissioned in 1978, LE Aoife commissioned in 1979 and LE Aisling commissioned in 1980. Naval Service vessels are required to operate in the harsh and unforgiving waters of the North Atlantic. With regard to safety, there is a programme of continuous planned and preventative maintenance to ensure that all Naval Service vessels are kept in a seaworthy condition and the Naval Service will only send ships to sea in a seaworthy condition. The older ships are monitored through increased inspections and maintenance.

                      These inspections have recently resulted in extensive repairs being carried out to the L.E. Emer and the L.E. Aoife, with holes in the hull plating of both vessels being detected and repaired in the course of dry-docking. The cause of the damage is likely to be salt-water erosion and micro-biological contamination propagation. The Naval Service is currently in contact with laboratory test facilities to inspect steel samples. The additional cost of these repairs is estimated at €100,000 per vessel. No such problems have been detected with L.E. Aisling although further inspection and examination work is planned.

                      A vessel replacement strategy for the Naval Service is currently in progress and a tender competition for a ship replacement programme commenced in 2007. The competition sought tenders for the purchase of two Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs) and one Extended Patrol Vessel (EPV), with an option for up to two additional vessels. The process comprised two stages – Stage 1, a Request for Proposals and Stage 2, an Invitation to Tender.

                      During 2008, Stage 1 of the tender process was completed and tenders were received in response to Stage 2. Following tender evaluation, a preferred bidder has been selected and detailed and extensive contract negotiations are now close to conclusion. The decision to proceed with the final award of contract to purchase the OPVs will be subject to Government approval and agreement on funding. Subject to such approval, it is expected that the new vessels will be delivered for acceptance by the Naval Service on a phased basis from 2012. In relation to the larger EPV, Stage 1 of the competition has been completed. Stage 2 will not be initiated until the contract for the OPVs has been concluded. This strategy combined with a continuous process of refurbishment and repair will ensure that the operational capability of the Naval Service is maintained at a satisfactory level.

                      As Minister for Defence, the health and safety of all Defence Forces personnel and compliance with the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act, 2005 and the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (General Application) Regulations 2007 are of utmost importance to me. The acquisition of modern new vessels will ensure that the Service will be fully equipped to carry out its day to day roles in enforcing the State’s sovereign rights over our waters and our fisheries and meeting Ireland’s obligations in the area of maritime safety and security and fisheries protection.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • i wonder has emer that much life left in her .. hope so they will have to mind her then 2012 is bit off at the moment for new ship .. sure the budget should tell a lot

                        Comment


                        • The U.S. Coast Guard employs various ships and boats of different size and ages.

                          The oldest is Acushnet built in 1944 which still patrols Alaskan waters.


                          So the question about Irish vessels being required to serve an extra few years i.e. 34 versus 30 should not be an issue. Surely the real issue is whether they are maintained to a satisfactory sea worthy state.

                          "When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."


                          Marcus Aurelius Roman Emperor (161 to 180 A.D.)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                            Approval for funding is at a very advanced stage.
                            So they are current negotiating a contract but don't know what they can afford because funding hasn't been approved. Thats how the public service should be run

                            Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                            i wonder has emer that much life left in her .. hope so they will have to mind her then 2012 is bit off at the moment for new ship .. sure the budget should tell a lot
                            She was due for replacement under the 30 year rule on 31 Jan 2008

                            Comment


                            • After reading the ministers answwers, the naval service could have had these ships already and some more.

                              320.9 million euro in hearing claims in 10 years. Just fu*king wow!
                              "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                              Comment


                              • if we had that amount of money for our navy it would be nice .. new ships fix dry dock in haulbowline god the list goes on... look emer is past it there just putting money into her to keep her going and thats a waste

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