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Thread: OPV Replacement

  1. #126
    Teuton Foot Soldier ZULU's Avatar
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    Go on the Dutch!
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  2. #127
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    On replacing the Emer, the Dpt of Defence should consider purchasing a vessel with Deep Diving capabilities considering the amount of up to date equipment the diving team has. It would also eliminate the naval diving team relying on other services to transport the heavy equipment. It would be better to make the diving ship a permenant fixture capable of operating outside the scope of fishery protection.

  3. #128
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Would a multi role vessel not have a capacity to assist in the deep diving activities?


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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  5. #129
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    Hi all
    Is this supposed ship expected to be a fleet resupply-at-sea vessel, also? Would it have a helideck? Would it make more sense to convert an existing commercial vessel rather than build from new?
    regards
    GttC

  6. #130
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    A rebuild would cost as much in the long term as a newbuild. Plus the rebuild would not have the same lifespan as a newbuild.

    Define resupply? If you mean refuel, its not really necessary as our ships have much longer legs than "proper " warships that normally operate as part of a fleet group, and need regular refuelling for their fuel intensive gas turbines.
    As for stores, any naval vessel is capable of transferring stores to other ships.

    Helipads are a must have, even if you do not have the aircraft. There is always the chance that you would be working in a mission where another nation is providing Helis(In Liberia for example the Ukranians do it).


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  7. #131
    Sergeant Major B Inman's Avatar
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    In UNIFIL every Batt had a number of helipads.

    NORAIR and later ITALAIR ( 6 x Bell 212 (Huey) were based in Naqoura on thecoast

    The only contingent I ever saw re supply by Air was FrenchBatt.

    Using UN Helis and French ships.


    Beruit and Haifa (the nearest viable ports) were many Kms away over very bumpy roads to the UNIFIL AO.


    Perhaps in the future INS ships will have helipads.
    Last edited by B Inman; 22nd May 2006 at 00:51.

  8. #132
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    I see according to Janes that the two Absalon Class ships for the Danish Navy will cost US$413 million in total. Accepting that they are far better equipped than anything that the NS are likely to get, but still it shows that these type of vessels don't come cheap.

    IAS

  9. #133
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    The Absalons would be ideal, but they're very big (over 6000t). Unlikely any Irish vessel would be that big.

    Fit aside, that figure is probably high also because of the fact that all of the development costs would be included. Were someone to buy 'off the shelf' as it were, the costs would be lower. For a ship of any reasonable size (>4000t), you'd still probably be looking at a figure of €100m though (as opposed to ~€160m for the Absalon). And you wouldn't build the hull in Denmark.

  10. #134
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    Maybe in Belfast?

    IAS

  11. #135
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Unless you know a good welder in Belfast I doubt it. H&W are no longer in the business of shipbuilding, and were never cheap when they did. Best bet is to build the Hull in some high output dockyard in Holland or Poland, the superstructure in Germany, and Mate the whole lot together on the Elbe..


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  12. #136
    all i ask is why Gasplug's Avatar
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    what about the place in scotland bulding for the Rn now?

    the ones that ****ed the boat up when they launched it!
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  13. #137
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Boat? The Navy don't need more boats, it needs more SHIPS.
    Like H&W, few of the UK dockyards are able to build with the same speed or quality as the Polish, Duch or (Former east)German yards.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  14. #138
    all i ask is why Gasplug's Avatar
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    ok sorry ship.......
    The trick to pet names is a combination of affectionate nouns. Honeybun. Sugarpie. Kittentits.

  15. #139
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    Hi ias
    Have you that much faith in the Loyal Orange Order of Shipwrights? Like Goldie said, get the East Europeans to churn one out and fit it up. How about getting an ocean-going tug/supply vessel instead? Goldie, does the navy practise refuelling at sea? If one was engaged in a SAR far out into the Atlantic, it would be nice to top up in situ rather than running for Killybegs or someplace like that.
    regards
    GttC

  16. #140
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    Goldie is right, build the hull in Poland (or Romania) and complete the fit in Germany or Norway, the entire project managed by a private sector contractor from the first steel cut to the delivery to, and formal acceptance as 'fit for purpose' by the NS.

    More to the point, the size of the dry dock in Rushbrook should not be the limiting factor in terms of size.

  17. #141
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The NS do not do refuelling at sea because they don't need to. Because they lack fuel intensive gas turbines,and do most of their operations at a relatively low speed, they have a much longer endurance than larger vessels.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  18. #142
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Poland it is then. Them lot will work an 80 hour week for less than minimum wage here.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  19. #143
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    As many Irish employers discovered after the EU enlargement!!!
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  20. #144
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    They also have the highest unemployment in the EU.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  21. #145
    CQMS Dogwatch's Avatar
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    Singaporean version of a Blue/Green Ship

    This is the largest class of ship in the RSN and they belong to the 191 Squadron. They were designed and built locally to replace the old County-Class LSTs. She is fitted with modern technologies, a well dock, flight deck and 4 Fast Craft Equipment Personnel (FCEP) for manpower efficiency.

    Length
    141 meters

    Beam
    21 meters

    Displacement
    6,000 tonnes

    Speed
    15 to 20 knots

    Crew
    65 officers & men

    Weapons
    76 mm OTO MELARA SRGM
    MISTRAL Surface-to-Air Missiles
    CIS Machine Guns


    'This is what Singapore has built as their version of a Blue/Green Ship'.
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  22. #146
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    she's pretty sizable, for what the NS would want isn't she?

  23. #147
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    RSS Endurance is the vessel,that's classified as an LST.


    Not quite blue/green. However they did play a large part in the Tsunami relief operation.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  24. #148
    Armchair Admiral ocean's Avatar
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    Ultimately I think its going to be the weather that will drive what the Irish Navy get. There are loads of reports already showing the waves are getting bigger off the west coast and there is evidence that this will continue into the coming decade - so if the Naval lads and girls are to remain safe in their workplace at sea they will need a or some larger ship(s) if they are to stay offshore - otherwise they will have to run ahead of the weather every time there is a storm.

  25. #149
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Waves etc. Isnt the west coast of scotland the north coast of ireland?


    http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...m?id=506312006
    Sun 2 Apr 2006

    'Perfect wave' breaks off Scotland
    TOBY MCDONALD AND ARTHUR MACMILLAN

    IT IS straight out of a nightmare: a wave almost 100ft high bears down on your helpless vessel miles from the safety of the shore.

    But that is exactly what a team of British scientists faced while conducting experiments off the west coast of Scotland.

    And the wave they measured - at just over 95ft from crest to trough - was the highest-ever scientifically recorded on the planet.

    The monster wave equal to the height of a 10-storey building, battered a team from the National Oceanography Centre (NOC) as they sailed near the tiny island of Rockall, in the Outer Hebrides.

    The real-life 'Perfect Storm' occurred in February 2000, but the details have only now emerged in a scientific paper for the Geophysical Research Letters Journal.

    Dr Naomi Holliday, a senior scientist with the NOC, has described the extent of the tempestuous storm, which occurred on February 8, 2000 - 175 miles west of the mainland.

    Holliday said: "It was pretty horrendous. We were literally thrown out of our bunks. It's really quite hard to imagine if you haven't been in a ship that's moving around that much.

    "I've seen the The Perfect Storm. It was a great film, I really enjoyed it. I just never thought I would live it."

    Higher waves have been estimated since, including 98ft in the Gulf of Mexico during Hurricane Ivan in 2004, and the October 1991 'Perfect Storm' off the north-eastern US, depicted in the movie starring George Clooney.

    The significance of the Rockall event is that the height of the sea was measured by an onboard wave recorder, making it officially the biggest ever.

    The NOC's boat, RSS Discovery, a successor vessel to Captain Robert Falcon Scott's ship, was stranded by storms for five days, with waves averaging 61ft. Wind speeds hit the severe gale category.

    The 295ft-long vessel was in the area to conduct experiments on global warming, but the onboard instruments were also capable of accurately measuring wave height.

    Holliday said: "Very strong winds are common here all the year round. The point is that all of these previously high measured waves were under hurricane conditions - really extreme conditions, but our big waves weren't. These are not especially unusual conditions. It wasn't just a one-off."

    The ship's officers had to point the ship's bow into the wind - but with waves rolling from more than one direction navigation remained difficult.

    The engines continually operated at full speed to keep the ship in position. And at night it was especially difficult because the crew could not see the waves coming.

    Holliday said: "We had five days when we were hove to and not able to turn around and run for cover. But there was a period of 36 hours when it was particularly bad. It wasn't something I would care to repeat. It was pretty mad.

    "It was a huge challenge for them to keep the ship safe. One mistake and it could have been swamped."

    She said American scientists monitoring hurricane-related wave heights had used two sources to reach their record figures - a combination of unmanned buoys and data gathered later.

    "They took the wave measurements by the buoy and compared them to the wave estimates from the model and drew some conclusions about the maximum wave heights they might have had," said Holliday.

    "The difference is, ours are directly recorded. The only ones that are provable are ours."

    Colin Griffiths, of the Centre for Coastal and Marine Sciences in Dunstaffnage, Oban, was also on the expedition.

    He said last night: "I spend a lot of time at sea and the weather was relentlessly extreme. It is only because we had wave recorders that we now know about the 95ft wave.

    "The fact that we measured it will mean that it can be accepted by a scientific journal.

    "We were thrown out of our bunks and sleeping became very difficult. I had a chair land on top of me in my bunk.

    "It's really quite hard to imagine if you haven't been in a ship that is moving around that much. But up on the bridge it must have been far, far worse.

    "I have a tremendous amount of respect for the crew and the officers of the ship who managed to keep us all alive."

    The researchers believe the discovery of such a huge wave amid relatively low, non-hurricane wind speeds could have implications for oil exploration on Britain's Atlantic shelf.

    Holliday believes the extreme waves were caused by a resonance effect.

    It occurs when the wind velocity matches the speed of the waves, resulting in wind continually feeding energy into the sea.

    She said: "Energy was continually being put into this wave group. This was pretty close to the maximum height that the waves could have got to. This is the edge of the Atlantic Shelf where a lot of exploration is going on.

    "These new figures are going to be quite significant. Engineers who are trying to design ships and oil platforms will have to think again."


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  26. #150
    CQMS Dogwatch's Avatar
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    RRS Discovery due in Cork in July

    The research ship mentioned is due in Cork in July.
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    Last edited by Dogwatch; 20th June 2006 at 23:47.

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