OPV Replacement

[Lordinajamjar]

Great news I have had my fingers crossed for so long I don't know if I can get used to typing again with two extra digits.

It was the purchase of Rosin that first pulled me into this forum,

[GoneToTheCanner]

All the serving NS men need now is for one of the older ships to spring a fatal leak at sea, thru metal fatigue or rust, and be lost. Given that, as GH says, they have been preparing for this for at least five years, I hope they get the design of the new ships right and don't do a "Dauphin" on it. Best of luck to the NS on getting the order in, at all.
regards
GttC

[hptmurphy]

Its almost there .

2014 and 2015 are ridiculous dates given we could have lost Emer and Aoife by then.The ground work is done, the ships could feasibly be delivered within 12,months, a four year wait is unacceptable.

So much so it gives the government an opt out clause right up to the time the ships are built.

Yes on the surface a good day, but no contracts signed as of yet and certainly no ships for quite a while.

I have no doubt the Navy are happy with the commitment given and it is better that the possibility of no ships at all but I won't be jumping up and down until they are alongside at Haulbowline.

[DeV]

I hope they get the design of the new ships right and don't do a "Dauphin" on it. Best of luck to the NS on getting the order in, at all.
regards
GttC

They don't seen to have had many problems with the Roisin or Niamh.

[Master Of None]

Without knowing too much on naval matters, shouldn't they have ordered 5, not 2?
If you take the notional life span of 30 years, won't the 5 all be 30+ by the delivery date of 2015

[Morris]

here lyeth the problem...

[Flintstone]

There's the rub. Master of None. While the country was awash with money the Fleet Replacement Programme was longfingered. Now we are grateful for these crumbs. Aisling could be a very old lady before she is retired, never mind the rest of the fleet.

[Jolly_Jack]

Let's get some perspective on this.....

The Celtic Tiger was alive and well from 1995 to 2006 (+/- a year or two). During that period public money would have been available for a one legged tap dancing school on the Blasket Islands. The NS managed to commission TWO ships and spent the rest of the time examining wave heights in the North Atlantic and working on the Blue/Green concept. The NS should have pushed for three more P51's in 2000-2004, to replace the Deirdre class and not spent the time trying to carry out a major redesign.

Its is now generally accepted that the useful life of a ship is 30 years (this is 10 years too long for anything spawned in VCD, IMHO). Based on 30 years, the contracts to replace the "Deirdre class" should have been placed in 2006, at the absolute latest. By 2015 six of the existing fleet will have exceeded their useful life span, including three that will be over 35 years old. The Minster will trot out the order for "two new ships' at every opportunity over the next four years and nothing else will be approved. Replacing six obsolescent hulls with two new ships is not a victory for the NS or its supporters.

Hindsight may be 20/20 but there is enough precedent in Irish military history to indicate that you take opportunities when they arise. "The perfect is the enemy of the good".

[Goldie fish]

Lads lads lads

While I appreciate greatly your hammering of fists on tables saying is should be done yesterday, the absolute fact is(forgive me if I repeat myself) there is a process in place for the possible purchase of 5 ships. 2+1 Opv and 1+1 EPV.
Read the thread, and the tenders, that I went to the trouble posting here, and making a sticky, just so you could ignore them.
The Wave studies were vital. If we went for another P50 class, then 10 years down the road, we might find the P50 unable to put to sea. By waiting on the study(the NS didn't do it, someone else did) the NS are in a position to provide the best value for money vessel, future proofed against all eventualities.

[hptmurphy]

The Minster will trot out the order for "two new ships' at every opportunity over the next four years and nothing else will be approved. Replacing six obsolescent hulls with two new ships is not a victory for the NS or its supporters.

there is a process in place for the possible purchase of 5 ships. 2+1 Opv and 1+1 EPV.

Possible purchase is the problem.Its not commitment, if there were a change of government tomorrow the whole thing could be written off.

Even though the country was in a mire during the late 70's early 80s we still mange to comission for ships which doubled the size of the NS, we are now look at a reversal of that achievements over the next five years where all those ships will be out of service with only tow probable replacements.

Its a compromise that s going to halve the NS by 2017. And not a word about the P40s....

[Jetjock]

My worry Goldie is that there has been no official word on the EPV, other than that it has been put on hold for now.

There would have to be even the slightest worry that this is as good as it will get as regards this government.

When Killeen discussed the option for the third vessel yesterday he used the phrase "that will probably be someone elses decision".

If an 8 ship Navy is maintained until 2015 it will be a miracle of maintenance and the stretching of hull lives for much longer than was ever safely envisaged.

Can an 8 ship Navy be maintained with the three PV's now expected to remain in service for 4,5 and minimum 6 years respecively?

HPT is right.

On the face of it this is great news. Analyse it deeper, not so much.

Why not 2012/2013 as the delivery dates as opposed to 2014/2015? Why prolong the uncertainty over a third vessel which is absolutely required in the minimum timefreame if there is any ambition to maintain an 8 ship fleet?

Smacks of a governmental cop out and a move to silence opposition questioning on the matter. I hope the Minister's questions continue to be dominated by this matter which is of the utmost importance to the country from a viewpoint of national security, economics and law enforcement.

I am happy there has been some movement at last.

However, I am not happy at the lack of urgency from the very Department that will continue to expect men to put to sea in ships that are increasingly unfit for purpose, for a minimum of 4-6 years more.

[GoneToTheCanner]

Same old.It'll take a tragedy such as a loss of a hull/lives due to metal fatigue to spur them to get ships built and in service.Even if the ships were delivered by 2012, it would probably take a year or two or working-up to get enough crews trained and problems thrashed out,etc to make it worthwhile.I hope Killeen has the bottle to actually get work started.
regards
GttC

[easyrider]

What wave studies??

[Goldie fish]

Jaysus lads, you are fierce negative.

READ THE ****ING THREADS I HAVE BEEN POSTING FOR THE LAST YEAR

The minister (both of them) have said over and over in the dail that the EPV contract would only be dealt with once negotiations for the OPV were complete.
November will see contracts signed. And contracts are contracts.

Don't compare it with the 80s. That was a ****up that was shared between the govt, the dockyard management and the dockyard unions.
Govt decided to use Irish shipping, the NS and non existent government money to keep an unprofitable dockyard open. The NS wanted 2 ships that could operate a helicopter(that we didnt have), and the "experts" presumed that all you needed to do was stick a flat deck on the stern of the P20 class. The Government Budgeted accordingly.
Then the real experts told them to put a heldeck on a ship it needed to be a minimum size, which would be twice the size of the P20 class.
Meanwhile the Unions, in a depression were demanding welders be paid €200 per week, at a time when that was double the average industrial wage.
Then the Management, under Mr Van Der Puil, who already had his new job lined up, encouraged management non cooperation with union reps, leading to regular downing of tools, and deliberate delays to the building of eithne.
By the time it was finally finished, There was no money left for P32. The research ship planned had been binned long before. In any case there was never a contract for either ship 2 or ship 3. Just a nod and a wink from DFHQ, who refused to be tied down by Naval architects.
The dockyard closed, because it couldnt secure a contract from non government agencies for 10 years previous. Its shipbuilding methods were very different to those used today, where the majority of fabrication is done under a roof.
Ten years ago, the NS needed one ship, it got 2. Appledore proved it could produce an excellent vessel. Now they get the change to provide us with at least 2 more.

So go easy on the negativity. Wait until something is actually cancelled before you get all morbid and depressed. You must all be an absolute joy to live with.

[TerryD1957]

Any ideas or information on the actual design/plans for the new OPV's?

I know the general parameters of the tender. I wondered if the new ships would be like the New Zealand Protector Class ships or of another design.