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  • Originally posted by Cryos View Post
    True, but facebook is also down right now (maybe it will be gone in 2 years ?) so i cant look at SwiftandSure's Kit Mong List on FB
    What Kit Mong list? I too, am one of Swifty's FB friends. Ask him to point me out and say hello...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
      Well actually it does. D Trg and the colleges are steadfast in there being a single standard. If its not a decent standard then 451s and 667s of senior PDF officers and NCOs need a good look at
      667's relate to conduct and performance. Of course there should be a single standard. Anyone that puts on a uniform should hold themselves to this professional standard.
      I can use the example of PDF NCO trg till I'm blue in the face, but it appears that I'm wasting time in reiterating the simple fact that if one person spends more time doing the a cse that the end product will not be identical.
      Look at the example of someone who goes through an arduous selection process gets a cadetship and spends the guts of 2 years living in a role 24hrs a day 7 days a week till they are considered a fully qualified officer. And the RDF counterpart who spends a few weeks FTT, the end product will not be identical nor should it be expected to be. The fact that they are not identical should be recognised. Apply the same logic to a civvie street scenario and you'll get the same result. It's not a slight on the reservist or a personal insult. Just a difference.

      Originally posted by trellheim View Post
      Everyone does a 154, ( to take JUST ONE example ) to the same standard. I refuse to accept this wear it with pride BS. I don't need that warm feeling. I see this as discriminatory and a pure coping method by the PDF to justify separation rather than mutual respect which is somewhere in our Dignity charter
      No one will argue the toss that an RDF and PDF driver are not the exact same, as we have done the exact same course with the exact same test. Equally you will not see people arguing that one person is any less qualified as a PTL/PMS or any other cse that has the same time frame and periods of training. Your interpretation of the term discriminated and differentiated appear to be out of sync. The purpose of a patch is to differentiate the same way a green beret used to.

      How are we different to the AGS? A member of the Garda Reserve wears the same uniform with a different shoulder board to differentiate them as a reservist. Countless other military's have a distinguishing mark on their uniforms. Why is the idea of being recognized as a reservist so repulsive to some individuals? I cannot grasp why it's such a big deal for us.
      Last edited by Duffman; 28 September 2015, 23:07.
      "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

      "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

      Comment


      • If there's one thing I've learned in the Defence Forces it's simply this:

        Let your skills do the talking.
        If my standards are so different to my RDF or PDF counterpart, it won't require a badge to show it.
        The quality of my work will speak for itself, PDF or RDF.
        If on the other hand a marker is needed to distinguish between the two, the difference doesn't exist.
        There are no absolutes, take it on a case by case basis.

        As I've said I'm pro RDF insignia, just as I'm pro battalion insignia, etc. It's a mark of pride.
        Only accepting it as less makes it so.
        Scheduled fun will commence at 1900Hrs.
        Punishment beatings will continue until moral improves.

        Comment


        • I stated my feeling on this badge earlier in the thread,
          But 'Why is the idea of being recognized as a reservist so repulsive to some individuals? I cannot grasp why it's such a big deal for us' because
          'Cultaca' = Leper
          'Cultaca' = ....... whatever your having yourself....

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
            I'm not certain that being declared competent to carry out a role as per the training syllabus necessarily equates to being able to complete the exact same role to the same standard as a PDF counterpart. A PFD Officer's training is 15 months long before he/she even completes corps training. It is this long for a reason. A good deal more would and should be expected of a PDF officer/NCO/Private on operations. The RDF equivalent soldier are judged on a lower level of competency based upon the fact that they haven't received the same amount of training time as mentioned above. Being able to complete such roles as section commander competently is merit worthy and a great achievement considering the far far fewer hours utilised.
            It is practice makes perfect, muscle memory (which granted most RDF soldiers won't get the opportunity to get to the same degree as the PDF soldier), etc


            Originally posted by FoxtrotRK View Post
            can you work with a SINGCARS or applications available to you when on the CIS Corps' time when you're not in a barracks?
            all RDF CIS elements are in bks

            Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
            A PDF PNCO on their PNCO Cse has to pass over twenty assessments during their course.

            How many does an RDF PNCO have to pass?

            I'm gonna take a guess and say it's not over twenty... Which would indicate that they are measured against somewhat different standards.
            I think I had to do 4, however the standard to pass tests is/should be the same.

            I didn't have to do the likes of C-IED, CBRN, M203, grenade, SRAAW, the overseas related stuff etc etc as either they weren't relevant to my role, they aren't on issue, the available time was given to the more relevant stuff.

            That isn't to say that it isn't revelant but it isn't as relevant to the RDF role.

            Originally posted by trellheim View Post
            D Trg and the colleges are steadfast in there being a single standard. If its not a decent standard then 451s and 667s of senior PDF officers and NCOs need a good look at. As I said I accept the point that PDF do more stuff. however, Everyone does a 154, ( to take JUST ONE example ) to the same standard. I refuse to accept this wear it with pride BS. I don't need that warm feeling. I see this as discriminatory and a pure coping method by the PDF to justify separation rather than mutual respect which is somewhere in our Dignity charter
            I disagree with the flash as it is a waste of taxpayers money (when we had a perfectly good alternative), I wore my green beret with pride.

            However, +1 million on the remainder of your post. Look at a RDF nav ex in the Inf Sch, standards are the same, TOETs are the same for all weapons in all units, there is a single standard for a 154 and for the courses run in the Tpt Sch.


            Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
            Well, I can tell you for a fact that your statement above (in bold) is incorrect, and I had it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. An entire TA (now Army Reserve) was deployed operationally to Kosovo, to allow their full time counterparts to deploy to somewhere warmer and with a lot more sand...
            And were routinely deployed to UNFICYP as formed and composite TA/AR units for a good few years

            Originally posted by Duffman View Post
            667's relate to conduct and performance. Of course there should be a single standard. Anyone that puts on a uniform should hold themselves to this professional standard.
            I can use the example of PDF NCO trg till I'm blue in the face, but it appears that I'm wasting time in reiterating the simple fact that if one person spends more time doing the a cse that the end product will not be identical.
            Look at the example of someone who goes through an arduous selection process gets a cadetship and spends the guts of 2 years living in a role 24hrs a day 7 days a week till they are considered a fully qualified officer. And the other who spends a few weeks FTT, the end product will not be identical nor should it be expected to be. The fact that they are not identical should be recognised. Apply the same logic to a civvie street scenario and you'll get the same result.

            No one will argue the toss that an RDF and PDF driver are not the exact same, as we have done the exact same course with the exact same test. Equally you will not see people arguing that one person is any less qualified as a PTL/PMS or any other cse that has the same time frame and periods of training. Your interpretation of the term discriminated and differentiated appear to be out of sync. The purpose of a patch is to differentiate the same way a green beret used to.

            How are we different to the AGS? A member of the Garda Reserve wears the same uniform with a different shoulder board to differentiate them as a reservist. Countless other military's have a distinguishing mark on their uniforms. Why is the idea of being recognized as a reservist so repulsive to some individuals? I cannot grasp why it's such a big deal for us.
            No one (AFAIK) is suggesting that a PDF and a RDF soldier are interchangeable in all aspects. What myself and others are saying is that on for example a Nav ex on a Std NCOs Cse will involve a equal standard being demanded from both PDF and RDF students. There was a RDF Inf YOs and a RDF Std NCOs Cse this year, who set out the course? A PDF officer from NCOTW.
            Last edited by DeV; 28 September 2015, 23:44.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              No one (AFAIK) is suggesting that a PDF and a RDF soldier are interchangeable in all aspects. What myself and others are saying is that on for example a Nav ex on a Std NCOs Cse will involve a equal standard being demanded from both PDF and RDF students. There was a RDF Inf YOs and a RDF Std NCOs Cse this year, who set out the course? A PDF officer from NCOTW.
              What you are saying is that you do not want to wear a patch that identifies you as a reservist. No one is questioning that an RDF soldier has finished an RDF cse and that the RDF cse contained a lot of the same element of the PDF cse. He performed some of the same tasks to the same standard. The DF is not questioning the standard. The standard is simply expected. That is not the issue. The issue is that it's a different cse. So therefore a different award and a different career. It's not an appendage measuring exercise. The patch is a means of differentiating between a reservist and a full time member. That is all. I refer once again back to nearly all other armies and the AGS. The SFC means that we operate as a single force. We still have full timers and reservists.

              Unfortunately as other posters have previously stated this thread and debate about a badge is going nowhere. I'll check back in a year.
              "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

              "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Duffman View Post
                What you are saying is that you do not want to wear a patch that identifies you as a reservist. No one is questioning that an RDF soldier has finished an RDF cse and that the RDF cse contained a lot of the same element of the PDF cse. He performed some of the same tasks to the same standard. The DF is not questioning the standard. The standard is simply expected. That is not the issue. The issue is that it's a different cse. So therefore a different award and a different career. It's not an appendage measuring exercise. The patch is a means of differentiating between a reservist and a full time member. That is all. I refer once again back to nearly all other armies and the AGS. The SFC means that we operate as a single force. We still have full timers and reservists.

                Unfortunately as other posters have previously stated this thread and debate about a badge is going nowhere. I'll check back in a year.
                I'm not against the badge!!

                I'm against wasting our (taxpayers) money!!

                We had green berets as a distinguishing feature, the DF decided they wanted everyone the same so everyone has to get a black beret (I would suggest that this cost in the region of €15-20 k). Now they have decided they want a distinguishing feature again so we are getting a tab.

                It wasn't broken!!

                Comment


                • NSR wear the flas on No1 AND working dress and alwats have
                  Sorry have to disagree as the the current working dress doesn't make provision for the Cultaca marking.


                  If it were to be worn as was suggested earlier , should be mounted on the rank slider.

                  I did suggest some years ago to a since deceased COS staff that if the reserves were to be integrated that the rank sliders on working dress and combats/dpmk would have been the ideal place to mount the unit designator as per the UKAF, and he did agree, well before it has come to the current scenario.

                  I have never had a problem with the identification of status, after all, its the common denominator across the DF for roles, units and rank, why not that between full timer and reservist given the disparagy of roles and skills. One has only to look beyond the Infantry types to highlight it.
                  The first thing people looked on the uniform to highlight rank was to the rank slider, so why not highlight the unit or status on same.

                  On PSO ops some years ago I was Recce sarge to a PDF Bn, no one gave a fcuk if I was RDF or PDF, once I got the job done, We did, the Recce section got the job done,the Bn people 4th as it was at the time didn't differentiate, within the concept of ops the Cav element did its job, and its was a Res Cav element taking the place of the PDF Cav element who were unavailable due to other commitments.

                  Felt good to be able to that under the circumstances, but was under no illusion that I was a reservist with a very limited skills base , performing a very singular task.

                  Aspects of the job can be done by the reservists if only to relieve the full timers for the time we can commit to, most NSR people can't give more than a couple of weeks and are limited to what they can do, but 27 years on from my time, they can perform, and its appreciated,

                  Yes they need to be utilised more but how to get to the next level is the question.

                  One would have to ask is all this Cultaca Badges thing based on one officers bad day out on a public outing last year and how it needed to be highlighted to the public that he was but a mere reservist?
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                  Comment


                  • it needed to be highlighted to the public that he was but a mere reservist?
                    He was wearing an RDF officer Glengarry.
                    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by AC182 View Post
                      If there's one thing I've learned in the Defence Forces it's simply this:

                      Let your skills do the talking.
                      If my standards are so different to my RDF or PDF counterpart, it won't require a badge to show it.
                      The quality of my work will speak for itself, PDF or RDF.
                      If on the other hand a marker is needed to distinguish between the two, the difference doesn't exist.
                      There are no absolutes, take it on a case by case basis.

                      As I've said I'm pro RDF insignia, just as I'm pro battalion insignia, etc. It's a mark of pride.
                      Only accepting it as less makes it so.
                      +1

                      For what it's worth, I'm happy out with the patch as I believe that having varying differentiations of insignia builds esprit de corps. As a result of too much unifomity, the DF is fúcking soulless half the time in my experience.

                      That said, this whole debacle strikes me of the Good Idea Fairy.









                      .....Cue the first picture of a Reservist in a black beret.









                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        Sorry have to disagree as the the current working dress doesn't make provision for the Cultaca marking.


                        If it were to be worn as was suggested earlier , should be mounted on the rank slider.

                        I did suggest some years ago to a since deceased COS staff that if the reserves were to be integrated that the rank sliders on working dress and combats/dpmk would have been the ideal place to mount the unit designator as per the UKAF, and he did agree, well before it has come to the current scenario.

                        I have never had a problem with the identification of status, after all, its the common denominator across the DF for roles, units and rank, why not that between full timer and reservist given the disparagy of roles and skills. One has only to look beyond the Infantry types to highlight it.
                        The first thing people looked on the uniform to highlight rank was to the rank slider, so why not highlight the unit or status on same.

                        On PSO ops some years ago I was Recce sarge to a PDF Bn, no one gave a fcuk if I was RDF or PDF, once I got the job done, We did, the Recce section got the job done,the Bn people 4th as it was at the time didn't differentiate, within the concept of ops the Cav element did its job, and its was a Res Cav element taking the place of the PDF Cav element who were unavailable due to other commitments.

                        Felt good to be able to that under the circumstances, but was under no illusion that I was a reservist with a very limited skills base , performing a very singular task.

                        Aspects of the job can be done by the reservists if only to relieve the full timers for the time we can commit to, most NSR people can't give more than a couple of weeks and are limited to what they can do, but 27 years on from my time, they can perform, and its appreciated,

                        Yes they need to be utilised more but how to get to the next level is the question.

                        One would have to ask is all this Cultaca Badges thing based on one officers bad day out on a public outing last year and how it needed to be highlighted to the public that he was but a mere reservist?
                        not sure i follow you with regard to ns working dress. the nsr currently wear a cultaca flash on working shirts and barrack jackets on the left arm above the ensign. anyone not doing same is at fault. in my own units this is strictly enforced since we were issued the barrack jackets in place of the old wooly pullys. which only happened a month ago.
                        Scheduled fun will commence at 1900Hrs.
                        Punishment beatings will continue until moral improves.

                        Comment


                        • Swifty, I thought id won the internet with my marching clown, but i doff my black beret to thee over this

                          PMSL all morning thanks :D

                          Also, i dont give a sh*te about wearing the badge, i preferred the green beret, im sad its gone, but im sadder, in my own Bn at least, at the gusto with which some members took on the black lid and the follow on poisonous reaction they've demonstrated over the cultaca badge.

                          Ill wear it, im proud of my voluntary service as a reservist...in some stupid romantic way im a patriot at heart, i love the DF and all it represents and have the utmost respect for those of us chosen to enter its ranks for a career and I feel lucky ive managed to participate in the manner in which i currently do.... for me when im on an ex in the mountains, or early in the morning on stag, it makes me think back to the past and the roots of the modern nations forces, to the ethos of the first scared young "voluntary" members of this nations fledgling forces... tired frightened souls hiding for hours on the damp ferny banks of some narrow country road, in the misty pre dawn cold as they waited for the heavily armed enemy to come roaring into sight on the backs of trucks, armed only with old rifles and shotguns and a sense of nationalism and patriotism that some people can only dream of today. we're all volunteers at the end of the day and 100 years ago, nobody would have asked you about the badge you wore , you were respected by your skills leadership and actions and you respected others in the same way. Im annoyed the black and the badge were introduced, however I now say, whats done is done, so at least wear it with pride.

                          maybe i should have posted this in our poetry section
                          Last edited by morpheus; 29 September 2015, 16:44.
                          "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                          "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                            Swifty, I thought id won the internet with my marching clown, but i doff my black beret to thee over this

                            PMSL all morning thanks :D

                            Also, i dont give a sh*te about wearing the badge, i preferred the green beret, im sad its gone, but im sadder, in my own Bn at least, at the gusto with which some members took on the black lid and the follow on poisonous reaction they've demonstrated over the cultaca badge.

                            Ill wear it, im proud of my voluntary service as a reservist...in some stupid romantic way im a patriot at heart, i love the DF and all it represents and have the utmost respect for those of us chosen to enter its ranks for a career and I feel lucky ive managed to participate in the manner in which i currently do.... for me when im on an ex in the mountains, or early in the morning on stag, it makes me think back to the past and the roots of the modern nations forces, to the ethos of the first scared young "voluntary" members of this nations fledgling forces... tired frightened souls hiding for hours on the damp ferny banks of some narrow country road, in the misty pre dawn cold as they waited for the heavily armed enemy to come roaring into sight on the backs of trucks, armed only with old rifles and shotguns and a sense of nationalism and patriotism that some people can only dream of today. we're all volunteers at the end of the day and 100 years ago, nobody would have asked you about the badge you wore , you were respected by your skills leadership and actions and you respected others in the same way. Im annoyed the black and the badge were introduced, however I now say, whats done is done, so at least wear it with pride.

                            maybe i should have posted this in our poetry section
                            Did you watch the wind that shake the barley recently?
                            To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

                            Comment


                            • Its like back in Cork

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                                He was wearing an RDF officer Glengarry.
                                But who from the general public looking on was aware of that point.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                                Comment

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