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  1. #1
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    Agusta Westland AB139 for Irish Air Corps

    I know this is a stupid question, but that hasn't stopped me before...does there not seem to be an awful lot of windows in the AB139?

    Should there not be more armour plating stuff? (I think that's the technical term)

  2. #2
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    mock up of military version
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    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    now that I look at it more, maybe the 139 is a good choice
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    Commander-in-Chief futurepilot's Avatar
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    WOOOOOOOOOOOOHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I`ve was hoping that we`d get the AB139. It is far superior to the Blackhawk in every manner.
    Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant

  5. #5
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dublinmick
    I know this is a stupid question, but that hasn't stopped me before...does there not seem to be an awful lot of windows in the AB139?

    Should there not be more armour plating stuff? (I think that's the technical term)
    Have you been reading indymedia again? Its not a gunship(sadly). The windows are for the VIPs.. The doors will spend most of their time open in the UH role....

  6. #6
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    Maybe the AB139s should be ordered with the doors and hinges taken off... to keep the "vips" out! :wink:

    IAS

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    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

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  8. #8
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    Seriously, apperently the Air Corps recomendation was for the AB139.........................
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
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  9. #9
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    AB139 formation flight
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    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    Farnborough 2004
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  11. #11
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139.htm

    So its kinda new....I thought it had to be in production....Fair enough its in production,but as far as I can see only 2 have been delivered to clients other than Agusta...

  12. #12
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    It looks more like a flying limo then a military chopper / gunship.

    I'm disappointed we didn't get blackhawks, lynx would even be acceptable.

    And at least 2 chinook's.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  13. #13
    4 Star General andy's Avatar
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    Just one thing strikes me about the AB139. There is hardly one picture of it being deployed as a military helicopter. Every picture I see is carrying VIP's FFS ! Looking at the sliding door, it does look a bit on the small side. Nice big soft seats for VIP's as well.

  14. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The AB139 site doesn't say anything about a military version, or armament. But it can carry up to 15, although I'd say that would decrease with CEFO.

  15. #15
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Looking at the .pdf brochure,there is an image showing the seating arrangement for the law enforcement model,with ten back to back seats along the centreline,the first two,behind the pilots, designated seating for the Gunners on either side.Seating is similar in design to that seen in the Mowags,for those who have enjoyed their comfort.
    Looking at each of the 3 brochures below,you can get an Idea of how the UH can look.

    http://www.agustawestland.com/dindoc/AB139%20Offshore_FINAL_7-6-04(2).pdf

    http://www.agustawestland.com/dindoc...AL_6-28-04.pdf

    http://www.agustawestland.com/dindoc...AL_6-28-04.pdf

    click here for USCG photos

  16. #16
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    Just wondering what type of weapon's will/ could be installed on the AB139's?

    Also will all 4 utility choppers be equipped with these weapons?

    Finally the paint job will they be white or will they be camoflaged?

    I have an idea we'll only have 3 new military chopper's( mabye less) the other(s) will be kitted out for VIP transport.

    Can't really see the taoiseach flying around the country in a camoflaged chopper with guns sticking out the side's.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  17. #17
    Resident Yank faughanballagh's Avatar
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    Maybe it will be like the US military, which has Hueys and Blackhawks in VIP configuration for the big boys in Washington...
    "Everyone's for a free Tibet, but no one's for freeing Tibet." -Mark Steyn. What an IMO-centric quote, eh?

  18. #18
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    It takes seconds to remove a door gun. Minutes to remove its mounting.
    The tender mentioned(not that anyone bothers reading it before asking questions) a General Purpose Machine Gun of 7.62mm calibre,on either side.

    The seating arrangement can be altered to suit the role. It remains to be seen if Diamond Bertie will look for the VIP fit(which is a kit,which can be removed by ground crew in a couple of hours).This seats 5 VIPs(of nominal weight 90kg) In the past,most VIPs being transported by Helicopter were happy with/tolerated the standard Passenger seating arrangment. The AB139 seats 15 in high density seating or 12 in normal confuguration.

    The advantage, If there is one, is that the Current Minister detests flying and has publicly stated he has no intention of travelling in them. With this in mind,it is doubtful he will pay much heed to the comfort of the seating his colleagues will be travelling in.

    Another option is that the LUH has sufficient space to do the job of ferrying VIPs,and carry out the training role, without needing to remove seating,allowing the Air Corps to leave the UH in the Utility or Air Ambulance configuration.
    Consider also that these aircraft probably will not be delivered till the end of the term of this government. Unless they are in a total world of fantasy,they should know that they will not be in government to enjoy the luxury of travel(They will probably decide to flog the Lear about the same time).They may not care about their successors comfort either.
    That said,the VIP seating fit has been specified in the tender,but not as a permanent fixture.

    On a slightly connected note, Namibia recently recieved the first of their 2 AB139s.
    the timescale for them was:
    Date: 18/09/2002
    Namibian Government Orders Two AB139 Helicopters

    Date: 16/09/2004
    Handover Of The First Namibian AB139 Helicopter
    This is pretty quick,when you consider that when the order was placed,this aircraft was still in prototype stage. Their model is the eighth model off the production line.

    I predict delivery in early to Mid 2006 of the AB139. The EC135 should be here sooner,as there are plenty in production. I think the GASU model left the factory within the year of the order being placed,but spent the remainder of its time sitting in McAlpines factory,being fitted out with its specialised equipment,and waiting for the AC/GS to sort out their internal disputes...

  19. #19
    all i ask is why Gasplug's Avatar
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    If your going to put any weaponry on a helicopter if should be the GE minigun, the air corps could practise using by vapourising the cows around the country and this would also help prevent the greenhouse effect!!!!
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  20. #20
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    A129....AB139....whats the difference really?
    I understand the 139 has a bit more legroom, shouldn't we have got an MLH for VIP work considering whose in government.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  21. #21
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    From AgustaWestland Website

    Date: 03/12/2004
    Irish Air Corps Selects AB139

    AgustaWestland is pleased to announce that, after the full evaluation programme, the Irish Department of Defence has selected the AB139 helicopter for their utility helicopter requirement including troop transport duties, air ambulance, inland search and rescue and VIP transport. Four AB139 helicopters will be delivered to the Air Corps. It is expected that negotiations will be completed later this month and a firm order for the delivery of the AB139’s agreed.

    In addition to the selection by the Irish Department of Defence, a number of government agencies around the world are showing a keen interest in the AB139 helicopter, whose modern design and certification standards, combined with its exceptional power-to-weight ratio and high-speed capability, make it ideally suited for law enforcement.

    Looking back on the Recent History of the Air Corps, I am trying to see where we go from here. The tender stipulated that interim aircraft could be provided,if the delivery time was expected to be particularly long. In the past this has been done with:
    CASA CN235. Leased s/n250 in 1991, s/n252 and 253 delivered in 1994
    Gulfstream G3. Leased 249 in 1990, delivered G4 251 in 1991
    Bae HS125. Leased 236 in 1979, delivered 238 in 1980

    In all three cases above,the original leased aircraft was different to the final purchased aircraft. Agusta have a number of production examples flying about,which though may not be equipped in the same manner as that finally delivered to the Air Corps,would still provide a useful training example to crews while they await the delivery of the ordered aircraft.(259????)

    All things considered,I still say two years from now,if all goes well,we should see all six aircraft flying with the roundel from Baldonnel.
    Another precedent which has been mentioned is the initial small quantity ordered,4. No mention is made in the above quote of the further options for an additional 2 aircraft. However the Allouette 3 fleet,so long the backbone of the Air Corps Helicopter fleet initially consisted of only 3 aircraft, s/n 195,196,197 delivered in 1963, followed in 1972 by 202, and in 1973 with 211,212, 213,culminating in the delivery of 214 in 1974.
    It is then possible that after the delivery of these aircraft and the recognition of their usefulness,that the FG majority Government will order a further 6... :tri:

  22. #22
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The sign says "Limit 05t" meaning the pad is limited to a 5 tonne heli. The AB139 is a six tonne heli.

    So who can tel me what other helipad is designed for 5 tonne helis?

  23. #23
    3* Roger McGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie Fish
    The sign says "Limit 05t" meaning the pad is limited to a 5 tonne heli. The AB139 is a six tonne heli.
    Is that not an N and not an M.

  24. #24
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    At a guess would it be the deck on Eithne??
    There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

  25. #25
    3* Roger McGee's Avatar
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    Looking at the structure and it's position in Goldies photo I'd say that it is a lot more susceptible to weight problems than any Irish landing pads.

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