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  1. #26
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    What's more susceptible? The heli or the pad?
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  2. #27
    3* Roger McGee's Avatar
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    The pad.

  3. #28
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Found these pics on franks site of the seating layout for the AB139(Isn't it odd how we are ignoring the EC135 purchase )

    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #29
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    Wasn't it the rangers that asked for the new heli's, after op's in east timor?
    How do you think the new AB139 will suit them?
    Who knows the aoluettes may form a reserve air corp. < (sarcastic)
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  5. #30
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    AB139 as Air Ambulance eh? what a load of sh!te. now that REALLY does make me sick...

    [RANT MODE ENGAGED]
    So, im probably wrong here but does that mean that if some day, 1 is being used for air ambulance, 2 are available to the military and VIP transport and probably 1 will be in maintenance (at any one time???)

    Thats 2 helis to cover the country? On my word im not a swearing man, but Painted F*****g RED AND WHITE OF ALL COLOURS!!

    Why cant they do something sensible like give 1 or 2 of the dauphins or allouettes (if they ARE actually to be removed from service) to the dept of health and let them refurbish and kit them out as full Dept Of Health air ambulance choppers??

    Now we leave the AB139s free to do what they should be doing and remove the air ambulance role completely (except in an ATCP situ)? oh yeah... that would be "sensible"...

    God knows, the dept of health swallow so much money up from the budget that they now represent the governments equivelant of a black hole in the Dail. No one there would miss the money required to update the aircraft, theyd probably forget they'd spent it.

    In fact one of my theorys is that Ireland is under attack from aliens, the PC9s are really a cover up for UFO's and a localised singularity has been opened by them inside the Bank vault containing the budget, the cash just gets sucked in and spewed out into space somewhere seventy two light-years from earth and pays for the as yet undiscovered alien species health service.

    The DOD to the rescue.... DOD chould "loan" them a few of its number crunching civil servants to "tighten" belts and "recommend" a few "whitepapers" be drawn up, while explaining how a 2 foot long square peg really DOES go into a round hole 4 inches deep. Simple, you "make the peg round, and then shorten it to 2 inches" [/RANT MODED DISENGAGED]
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  6. #31
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Morph..i think you'll find if you read again that they will probably not be painted red or white.

    BTW,Gazelles have carried dpm liveries in the past for short periods,and the Hurricaines of the 40s were also painted in camo colours.

  7. #32
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    Imshi pictures an airambulance picking up a critically ill child, he blinks aside his tears and his eyes widen as he realises he's sharing the cabin with an ARW assault team
    Last edited by Come-quickly; 14th January 2005 at 23:37. Reason: calmed down
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  8. #33
    Private 3* gaff85's Avatar
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    So were not the only Military wing (Excluding Police services) to order the AB139

    From Janes

    The AB139 intermediate helicopter will be joining the UAE Armed Forces in the next few years. In a major contract award announced at the show yesterday, the US/Italian joint venture company will be supplying the 15-seat helicopter in a multirole configuration, beating strong competition from Eurocopter, which had also been shortlisted with its equivalent EC 155 B1. The contract is valued at Dhs 308m (US$83.7m).
    "Why am I using a new putter? Because the last one didn't float too well." -Craig Stadler

  9. #34
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    Will we be getting the run of the mill civilian version of the AB139 but painted green, or are we getting the proper military variant?


  10. #35
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Sigh...

    If you read the thread,you will see that we are getting the fully armed version,with air to air missiles,anti tank missiles,25mm chain gun,flir,and of course whisper mode...


    READ THE THREAD

  11. #36
    Nijmegen Neanderthal Eddie Dillon's Avatar
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    We're getting the military version pym, I don't have the time to read 7 pages so I'm assuming that Goldie is being sarcastic, something not often seen around here...
    "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

    Otto Von Bismark

  12. #37
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    There is no military version as such. It is being equipped as per the tender,which has been discussed at length here over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

  13. #38
    Nijmegen Neanderthal Eddie Dillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    Well yes and no....we are the First customers for the military variant,but it is similar to that due to be delivered to the USCG,though not the same.
    No military variant??
    "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

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  14. #39
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I thought you said you hadn't the time to read 7 pages?

  15. #40
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    http://www.agustawestland.com/products.asp

    Notice the lack of the AB139 in the military range? What we are getting is a LAW ENFORCEMENT version.

    (again we have been over the whole military/civilian thing already,over and over. Use the search function)

  16. #41
    The Shadow
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    Maybe it's my eyesight, but I can't seem to locate the rotar in the picture above.

  17. #42
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    It's a mock-up, not a real heli.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    http://www.agustawestland.com/products.asp

    Notice the lack of the AB139 in the military range? What we are getting is a LAW ENFORCEMENT version.

    (again we have been over the whole military/civilian thing already,over and over. Use the search function)

    The reason I asked was because of this page: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/ab139/

    Granted it was a "mock up" of the military variant, but I was of the understanding we were the first military customers for it....

    "The AB139 military version is capable of carrying up to 15 troops or six stretchers with four medical attendants. It can be fitted with gun pods, rocket launchers and air-to-air missiles attached to two removable external supports."

    I apologise for irritating you so much

  19. #44
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    Also this might be of note:http://forums.military.com/eve/ubb.x.../m/21000911713

    If it is to be believed it looks like the USCG wont be getting the AB-139. Its interesting to note some of the contributors werent too keen to be the launch customers.

    Please dont let this turn into the Dauphin debacle.

  20. #45
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    PYM,

    What, exactly, do you think makes a military helicopter different from a civillian one?

    The majority of things you'd expect from a military helicopter (crash-proof seating, military comms fit, weapons capability, NVG cockpit) were mentioned in the tender document. Even if they weren't it would be relatively easy to retrofit them to a 'civvy' heli.

    We're not the launch customer for the AB-139, it's already in service with the Namibians & civillian customers.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  21. #46
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    FMolloy I'm sure you're the man to realise that this is in danger of veering off topic, after all the topic's not about what "I think". Although since you asked; I would have assumed that a the military variant of the AB-139 wouldve had some level of armour (i.e. Kevlar) installed to protect the pilot/troops and the aircrafts vital systems from small arms fire, something which I dont believe is on your average civilan helicopter, but I could be wrong.

    A quote from http://www.ainonline.com/issues/06_0...9twinpg80.html :
    Moreover, added Bartolotta, the military potential of the AB139 can be realized without costly additional design. “The requirements [civil and military] have merged. Today, we can achieve 90 percent of military specs without any changes. The JAR/FAR 29 civilian certification already demands self-sealing, crashworthy fuel tanks; the composite blades have inherently high ballistic tolerance; and the large sliding doors help meet the troop egress requirements,” he noted, reflecting on both European and U.S. standards.
    Taken from the horses mouth as it were, that says to me that there is a difference between a civilian and military helicopter. Although whether crash proof seats + door mounted guns = that missing 10% I dont know.

    I raised the question because it appears there is a military variant of the AB-139 available - and I pictured it above, the version in question can take missiles and anti-aircraft weapons - something I've yet to see on a civilan helicopter. It also looked visually different - with extra sensors placed on the front.

    The Namibian helicopter is for VIP transport rather than troop transport, i.e. it is not the military version I am referring to or pictured earlier, therefore if we were in fact getting the military version we would be that types "launch customer". The same is true of the Dauphin - it was in civilian use before we purchased it.

    I simply wanted to know whether this was the one we were getting, I got the answer, and now you're now asking me what I think a military helicopter is for some reason.
    Last edited by pym; 23rd May 2005 at 11:03.

  22. #47
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    Before FMolloy has an aneurysm, I'll try and explain this simply.

    For the most part, the difference between a military and civilian helicopter in this case is merely one of specification. There is no specific military variant of the AB-139, the mock up that's been posted was one created for an expo about 5 years ago, before the helicopter had ever even flown, to drum up potential military customers. It doesn't exist as an identifiable or distinct model.

    The tender document specified an aircraft with a military fit, seating, comms, etc. This is what makes it, essentially, a military helicopter. Its not like some robed priest waves a wand over the thing as it rolls off the production line, and says "Kazaam, you are now a military helicopter". It is a matter of spec, fit, and useage. Some aircraft are designed and built for military use, others have militari'ness' conferred upon them by dint of fit. The Air Corps AB-139s fall into the second category.

    For example, the version in question can take missiles and anti-aircraft weapons - something I've yet to see on a civilan helicopter. ... because that would be illegal. But its not exactly complicated to turn the 'civilian' helicopter into a 'military' helicopter, with a few minor spec changes. The hardpoints for mounting are on the airframe anyways, it has a databus onboard. The only complicated thing would be picking out a paint colour to make it look 'military'.

    The important element of the quote you took from 'the horses mouth' is The requirements [civil and military] have merged. In other words, because of increased safety requirements for civilian helis (JAR/FAR-29), it is increasingly easy for manufacturers to market their helicopters to military customers with little or no modification.

  23. #48
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    Aidan, thanks for the post, but you really didnt need to be so condescending. I'm sure that will get me a witty response, or twenty.

    As I stated previously, I asked a simple question, I just wanted to know whether we were getting a specific version. It has been cleared up.
    Last edited by pym; 23rd May 2005 at 12:11.

  24. #49
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    you really didnt need to be so condescending

    Of course I did, its my main function around here.

  25. #50
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Interesting development in the AB139 story,if you visit http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139.htm you will see the production list.
    In the second column,third and fourth aircraft on order have an EI... prefix,though the customer is not listed,and the remarks are "Corporate". Further down the list are the 4 aircraft on order for the air corps,with EMS/SAR/Multirole being given as their role.

    Could the first two aircraft be interim aircraft,leased from AGUSTA/Bell and placed on the Irish Civil register? Or has one of our wealthy residents decided to purchace? JP Mc Manus is pretty fond of his Bell (414 I think). I know there was no mention of interim aircraft when the Contract was signed...

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