Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Agusta Westland AB139 for Irish Air Corps

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ha Ha Goldie, you so funny. you get twice as long if you rotate them
    It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you have.

    Comment


    • what's the point?

      What's the point of paying enormous amounts of money for these things if they're never going to be deployed operationally?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carrington View Post
        What's the point of paying enormous amounts of money for these things if they're never going to be deployed operationally?
        The helis were bought to replace the AIII's & will take over their roles - namely army co-op, training & ATCP roles. All this was discussed in length earlier in the thread & elsewhere on the board, I suggest you look at what was said there.
        "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

        Comment


        • training for what?

          Tks, I had a look at the White paper and the tender specs. posted earlier...

          The White paper covers the period 2000-2010. Like any plan, its relevance decreases as time goes by. In any event, planning should now be commencing for the next White Paper, due in a couple of years. The decisions of the previous White Paper should come up for review, so now is the time to have an input to the big decisions for the future...

          Given that the Army Air Corps will soon have eight modern hi-spec helicopters, which will have cost the taxpayer somewhere in the region of €80 million, it is hard to understand that none of them will ever be used in the Army's major operational deployment, which is overseas.

          According to the the tender specs.:
          "Primary taskings for the utility helicopter include:-
          a. Training and operations with Special Forces
          b. Security and aid to the civil power
          c. Reconnaissance team deployment and support
          d. Military exercises and manoeuvres and pre-manoeuvre training
          e. Infantry interoperability training
          f. Casevac
          g. Limited airlift, troop transport (up to eight equipped troops) and logistical support.

          The helicopters will also be required to perform the following tasks:-

          a. Air Ambulance
          b. Aid to the civil community
          c. VIP transport

          The helicopters will also be required to perform a significant amount of Air Corps training roles including:-

          a. Conversion training
          b. Winching and inland SAR training and operations.
          c. Night Vision Equipment (NVE) development and operations."

          The specs for the LUHs are similar.

          Most of the tasks relate to army support or training for those tasks. (The other tasks do not require eight helicopters to be available.) What is the point of having these helicopters if they are not to be deployed with the army?

          Comment


          • So troops deploying overseas will have experience in operating in helis and will be able to transfer that knowledge to the area the are to operate in which may have air support from UN helis??
            What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carrington View Post
              The White paper covers the period 2000-2010. Like any plan, its relevance decreases as time goes by. In any event, planning should now be commencing for the next White Paper, due in a couple of years
              There is no guarantees that there will ever be another white paper, so far this one is a one-off
              "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
              Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
              Illegitimi non carborundum

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Odin_ie View Post
                So troops deploying overseas will have experience in operating in helis and will be able to transfer that knowledge to the area the are to operate in which may have air support from UN helis??
                80million euro so that troops going overseas know how to climb in and out of a 'chopper - that of course will be a completely different layout - how to do up a seat belt and to secure floppy hats, maps and anything else that might get picked up into the rotors?

                someone saw you lot coming...

                Comment


                • bring your own....

                  Originally posted by Odin_ie View Post
                  So troops deploying overseas will have experience in operating in helis and will be able to transfer that knowledge to the area the are to operate in which may have air support from UN helis??

                  But if they need air support why don't they bring their own, now that we have them?

                  Comment


                  • no new White Paper?

                    Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                    There is no guarantees that there will ever be another white paper, so far this one is a one-off
                    It would make sense to produce another for the next decade.... Has there been any decision/announcement either way?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carrington View Post
                      It would make sense
                      You obviously don't have much experience with the Defence Forces.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carrington View Post
                        But if they need air support why don't they bring their own, now that we have them?
                        Well why not? The UN pay for them and majority of costs if the finance is what your worried about.
                        Sex - Breakfast of Champions!

                        Comment


                        • Firstly it is the Irish Air Corps not "Army Air Corps".

                          There is more to working with helicopter training than the seat belt etc.

                          In order to have two helicopters operational at all times, at least 3 if not 4 are required, as for every hour they spend in the air they will have to undergo around 2.5 to 3 hours maintainance (depending on the type of aircraft).

                          You seem to forget the DF is operational at home as well as overseas.

                          Comment


                          • EC135
                            100hrs flying=2 hours maintenance
                            AB139
                            25 hours flying=3 hours maintenance
                            300hrs flying=1 weeks maintenance.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • Maintenance hours are worked out on the basis of man hours, the 50 hour check on AB139 takes 4 people 5 hours to complete.

                              The maintenance hours are also averaged out of the year AFAIK. The more intensively an helicopter is flown the more maintenance is required.

                              The 50 hour check on the AB139 takes 4 people a day, assuming a 7 hour working day thats 28 hours of maintenance.

                              Also don't forget the pre and post flight checks which may take 2 people 30 minutes every time the aircraft takes off and lands.

                              Then as the aircraft get older...

                              Comment


                              • why not indeed?

                                On the basis of what's been said, there doesn't seem to be any major military problem about deploying say three helicopters overseas - two to be available for ops. while one is maintained/repaired - together with the appropriate numbers of flight crew, maintenance personnel, and ops. and admin. staff (total of 20 - 30 personnel?).

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X