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Agusta Westland AB139 for Irish Air Corps

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  • and parts....and tools.....


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • IMHO if the new helis are ever deyloyed abroad, it probably wont be for a very long time. This is the first time since the puma that the Air corps have a true tactical transport capability, its going to be a while before things are perfected.
      Im Ron Burgendy??

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      • conversion..

        Originally posted by tonyrdf View Post
        IMHO if the new helis are ever deyloyed abroad, it probably wont be for a very long time. This is the first time since the puma that the Air corps have a true tactical transport capability, its going to be a while before things are perfected.
        How long do you think it will take? Surely a few months would be enough for training and familiarisation with the new machines?

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        • If the AC was to deploy 3 helicopters overseas, how would the pilots and troops be trained when before the troops were deployed?

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          • Originally posted by carrington View Post
            How long do you think it will take? Surely a few months would be enough for training and familiarisation with the new machines?
            The AC has so far only received two of the six helicopters, so sending any overseas until all six are delivered is unthinkable. Even when all six are delivered it would be very difficult to justify splitting such a small fleet - you can't send enough overseas to be effective, and if you did whatever number of helis remain would not be sufficient to carry out the tasks assigned to them.

            These helis are a big step forward for the AC, they cannot be rushed into overseas service like you are suggesting.
            "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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            • what could have been...

              Originally posted by FMolloy View Post
              The AC has so far only received two of the six helicopters, so sending any overseas until all six are delivered is unthinkable. Even when all six are delivered it would be very difficult to justify splitting such a small fleet - you can't send enough overseas to be effective, and if you did whatever number of helis remain would not be sufficient to carry out the tasks assigned to them.

              These helis are a big step forward for the AC, they cannot be rushed into overseas service like you are suggesting.

              The Belgian Navy had just three Alouette IIIs, one of which was deployed to Somalia for service with the UN...

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              • In contrast to Belgium where all three branches of their armed forces have helis, only the Air Corp operates aircraft within the Irish DF. Whereas the loss of that AIII wouldn't have inconvenienced the Belgians that much, such a loss to a small fleet like the AC's would be a more serious issue.
                "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                • Im not waltering, but would there ever be the possibilty of increasing the number of AW139s beyond the 6?Maybe have a fleet that is capable of giving the lads overseas in-house air support...
                  Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face

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                  • Originally posted by Tripper View Post
                    Im not waltering, but would there ever be the possibilty of increasing the number of AW139s beyond the 6?Maybe have a fleet that is capable of giving the lads overseas in-house air support...
                    There's always the possibility, remember the AIII's weren't all bought at the same time.
                    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                    • more helicopters

                      Originally posted by FMolloy View Post
                      The AC has so far only received two of the six helicopters, so sending any overseas until all six are delivered is unthinkable. Even when all six are delivered it would be very difficult to justify splitting such a small fleet - you can't send enough overseas to be effective, and if you did whatever number of helis remain would not be sufficient to carry out the tasks assigned to them.

                      These helis are a big step forward for the AC, they cannot be rushed into overseas service like you are suggesting.

                      Perhaps the Air Corps would have been better off spending the €80 million, or at least some of it, on larger numbers of smaller, cheaper helicopters? They could have bought 40 or 50 EC-120s, for example, plenty for deployment overseas, and even to provide organic aviation units at brigade level.

                      Comment


                      • To do what? You won't fit a section of fully equipped troops in the back of a 120. You'll be lucky to fit them in the door.
                        Its a bit excessive if its only purpose is to shuttle the Brass about.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • 40 or 50 helis? Where would they put them? Who would fly them all? As for 120s, you could hang them all on the Dublin city Chrismas tree for all the good they would do!

                          Comment


                          • more or better?

                            The discussion earlier had been about how few helicopters the Air Corps has, so few that they couldn't deploy any overseas.

                            The point I was trying to make is that given the money that was spent, they could have given a higher priority to numbers rather than other factors. The EC 120 is a basic helicopter - single-engine, VFR, 5-seater - but it could probably do a lot of the jobs that the EC 135 or AW139 will end up doing. I'm not necessarily advocating this particular machine - although it is used by US Customs and Border Patrol and the Spanish military - but you could get at least six of them for the price of an AW139.



                            There will always be a trade-off between quantity and quality, a choice between a smaller number of more capable aircraft or a larger number of less capable ones.

                            Comment


                            • what, where, who...


                              What would they do?


                              normal military light utility helicopter duties: command, communications and liaison, observation and reconnaissance, casevac, light transport, battlefield resupply, training…. (Like the Alouette III, Gazelle, Westland Scout, OH-6, OH-58…. When 2 Para were assaulting Goose Green in the Falklands, they were supported by two Scouts and two Gazelles that brought up ammunition and flew back with casualties.)


                              Where would they go?

                              (suggestion)
                              6 each to overseas, training, brigades (3), maintenance
                              (6x6 = 36, still leaves a couple for MATS)


                              Who would fly them?


                              Same pilots who fly current types… plus NCO pilots?

                              Comment


                              • There would probably be little public objection to the spending aswell because who would object to the best possible equipment for our soldiers serving abroad??

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