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Thread: Drydocking?

  1. #201
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    When was this published?
    July 17

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Very pleased that some real development plans on naval berthage are to be put in hand. Using the Graving Dock as planned should only be temporary with a resolve to cover it in as an all weather repair dock. perhaps even resurrect it's drydocking past. Someone said there may be a gate lying around post Chatham closure. Anyway this is good news for the Nine ship future.

  3. #203
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    What’s the current plan for the ISPAT site to the West of the Basin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    What’s the current plan for the ISPAT site to the West of the Basin?
    It needs cleanup before anything is formalised. Its cleanup is actually more complex than the east tip, due to the nature of the contamination. There is all nature of obstructions above ground disguising deep pools of toxic waste. What look like puddles are often deep drains. There was once a plan to use it as a secure staging area for vehicles & equipment due to go overseas.
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  6. #205
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    The current plan for west of the basin is surely contained within the RFT for development of berthage at Haulbowline. The west site was the position of the steel works and would have been masses of concrete foundations , bins, and industrial steel buildings, now mostly gone. The development potential would hardly go ahead if it were not feasible for the reasons implied.

  7. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    It needs cleanup before anything is formalised. Its cleanup is actually more complex than the east tip, due to the nature of the contamination. There is all nature of obstructions above ground disguising deep pools of toxic waste. What look like puddles are often deep drains. There was once a plan to use it as a secure staging area for vehicles & equipment due to go overseas.
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The current plan for west of the basin is surely contained within the RFT for development of berthage at Haulbowline. The west site was the position of the steel works and would have been masses of concrete foundations , bins, and industrial steel buildings, now mostly gone. The development potential would hardly go ahead if it were not feasible for the reasons implied.
    I mean the factory site (I use the term loosely (as opposed to the East Tip)). From the tender it looks like they are cleaning it up and capping it (they are worried about services being able to route through it (eg water mains) in the tender.

    If they are worried about that I’m sure structures requiring any kind of foundations on that site are out to?

  8. #207
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    Secure fencing to separate the West Wall quay and its access routes from the remainder of the ISPAT site, which may not be under the future control of the Naval Service, shall also be required.
    Assume this means that this area may become another public park and further erosion of naval services property on the island.
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  9. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    Assume this means that this area may become another public park and further erosion of naval services property on the island.
    Hence my question. The West Wall Quay isn’t the site of the public park, it is the plant site - there doesn’t appear to be a plan for it yet (apart from capping it).

    NS square, vehicle park, storage yard, prefab type Accomodiation anyone?

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  11. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Hence my question. The West Wall Quay isn’t the site of the public park, it is the plant site - there doesn’t appear to be a plan for it yet (apart from capping it).

    NS square, vehicle park, storage yard, prefab type Accomodiation anyone?
    The development of the west wall and graving dock area will absorb most of the territory available between the basin and the abandoned IS buildings. The area is mostly capped with masses of concrete to withstand handling steel production and smelting. The area will be needed in the future to handle military cargoes. What goes there will be determined by need and events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The development of the west wall and graving dock area will absorb most of the territory available between the basin and the abandoned IS buildings. The area is mostly capped with masses of concrete to withstand handling steel production and smelting. The area will be needed in the future to handle military cargoes. What goes there will be determined by need and events.
    It reads like the factory site is being capped in more concrete

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It reads like the factory site is being capped in more concrete
    That would solve most of the current H&S issues. Most of the demolition was done by cutting the steel frame of the larger buildings close to ground level. The root or metal stump of this former structure remains protruding above the ground, randomly around a site which from a distance appears to be a flat site. Combine this with numerous deep holes where once were services and utilities, disguised by puddles.
    As a working steel mill many of the services were trunked under the factory floor, covered by walkways. With the walkways removed, just the trench remains.
    As time passes all these hazards are being hidden by undergrowth.
    The photo below shows the area west of the graving dock as site clearance took place.
    Found this elewhere on this site.

    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post202285
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  15. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    That would solve most of the current H&S issues. Most of the demolition was done by cutting the steel frame of the larger buildings close to ground level. The root or metal stump of this former structure remains protruding above the ground, randomly around a site which from a distance appears to be a flat site. Combine this with numerous deep holes where once were services and utilities, disguised by puddles.
    As a working steel mill many of the services were trunked under the factory floor, covered by walkways. With the walkways removed, just the trench remains.
    As time passes all these hazards are being hidden by undergrowth.
    The photo below shows the area west of the graving dock as site clearance took place.
    Found this elewhere on this site.

    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...l=1#post202285
    Still a very big site

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    I wouldn't be less hopeful that we will get good use from the site despite difficult trenching , levelling and filling. I would be more concerned with the use of a large drydock in the manner described due to the stepped nature and major structures down to the dock floor. Berthage and access , ship to shore, will have to allow for 4meter rise and fall of ships within the dock which means the ships will have to be guided by some means to keep clear of the steps and prevent underwater hull damage.

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  18. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I wouldn't be less hopeful that we will get good use from the site despite difficult trenching , levelling and filling. I would be more concerned with the use of a large drydock in the manner described due to the stepped nature and major structures down to the dock floor. Berthage and access , ship to shore, will have to allow for 4meter rise and fall of ships within the dock which means the ships will have to be guided by some means to keep clear of the steps and prevent underwater hull damage.
    Steps etc are to be removed

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Steps etc are to be removed
    That would be difficult.



    Last edited by na grohmití; 26th January 2018 at 03:14.
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  21. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    That would be difficult.




    Sorry it’s “stone buttresses” on the West side of the Graving dock that are to be removed and “the face of the wall regularised”

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    It must have been a badly run dock in those days with bits of previous work lying everywhere. However there it is, rather large and salvageable. The berthing points either side could be done against greenheart dolphins replacing the IS docking points (buttresses) but would need special gangways to bridge ship/shore distances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Sorry it’s “stone buttresses” on the West side of the Graving dock that are to be removed and “the face of the wall regularised”
    An easier task. A steel frame topped with concrete could provide a solution that would not impact greatly on the original construction. There are two butresses jutting from the west side of the dock that are a relic from the ISPAT days, for just that purpose, to load barges of slag.
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  26. #219
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    interesting photos - from graving dock in "queenstown cork" during ww1

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/042.htm
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  28. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It must have been a badly run dock in those days with bits of previous work lying everywhere. However there it is, rather large and salvageable. The berthing points either side could be done against greenheart dolphins replacing the IS docking points (buttresses) but would need special gangways to bridge ship/shore distances.
    I see the visiting cruise liner trade 93+ ships is expected for 2018 with a spend close to 20m Euros. Efforts continue to boost that trade for our key ports. It continues to be ironic that we cannot offer them other than afloat services of limited range. On the other hand a cruise island like Bahamas has three large floating docks in a co-ordinated yard system capable of taking in ships up to 80,000 tonnes and 900 ft + in length. Our DPA closed their only drydock to make way for increased liner traffic. We are unlisted in the world list of drydocks and have a slim entry in European Drydocks register. While maritime affairs in Ireland are a sub-paragrph of Environment and planning, it will wither away with definite collateral damage to our ability to be seen as a player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I see the visiting cruise liner trade 93+ ships is expected for 2018 with a spend close to 20m Euros. Efforts continue to boost that trade for our key ports. It continues to be ironic that we cannot offer them other than afloat services of limited range. On the other hand a cruise island like Bahamas has three large floating docks in a co-ordinated yard system capable of taking in ships up to 80,000 tonnes and 900 ft + in length. Our DPA closed their only drydock to make way for increased liner traffic. We are unlisted in the world list of drydocks and have a slim entry in European Drydocks register. While maritime affairs in Ireland are a sub-paragrph of Environment and planning, it will wither away with definite collateral damage to our ability to be seen as a player.
    How many of those cruise liners are registered in the Bahamas? How many might be home ported in Nassau? Nassau is the fifth most used Cruise port in the world by passengers, how exactly you think Cork should build up such capability when we have nothing of the like homeported doens't make sense to me. The planned upgrade to the terminal to allow dual berthing makes more sense.

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    It would be nice if Cork, or even Ireland could offer something in the way of ship repair though. Cork dockyard cranes are now all no more.
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  32. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    How many of those cruise liners are registered in the Bahamas? How many might be home ported in Nassau? Nassau is the fifth most used Cruise port in the world by passengers, how exactly you think Cork should build up such capability when we have nothing of the like homeported doens't make sense to me. The planned upgrade to the terminal to allow dual berthing makes more sense.
    Being home ported in a particular City or Island does not mean that all ships so registered ever go to that port. Thousands of ships are registered in Monrovia and many are registered in Nassau but spend their trading days elsewhere. We also are an island but unfortunately our planners do not see the value of viable sea ports and facilities for maritime trade. The type of development needed is a National issue and needs foresight and ambition. Very soon we may have to have our ships docked and repaired elsewhere or join the queue for such work. The State may have to takeover Cork Dockyard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Being home ported in a particular City or Island does not mean that all ships so registered ever go to that port. Thousands of ships are registered in Monrovia and many are registered in Nassau but spend their trading days elsewhere. We also are an island but unfortunately our planners do not see the value of viable sea ports and facilities for maritime trade. The type of development needed is a National issue and needs foresight and ambition. Very soon we may have to have our ships docked and repaired elsewhere or join the queue for such work. The State may have to takeover Cork Dockyard.
    They do see the value of the Sea Ports (would be nice if the sea ports themselves stopped trying to stop each other but that's not likely to happen) as for Dry docks, you point to the one that has been shut down in Dublin, the question I have is if it was paying for itself Dublin Port might not have closed it, for Cobh, are they turning away business? Or is the private sector using other facilities that suit them better for whatever reason? If the demand was their I doubt DSG would be refusing to make investments to meet said demand, if it isn't there why should they (or the state)? We already have our ships built abroad and there's plenty of docks either in the UK or Europe depending on Brexit that would have a far higher throughput to sustain quality/workrate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    They do see the value of the Sea Ports (would be nice if the sea ports themselves stopped trying to stop each other but that's not likely to happen) as for Dry docks, you point to the one that has been shut down in Dublin, the question I have is if it was paying for itself Dublin Port might not have closed it, for Cobh, are they turning away business? Or is the private sector using other facilities that suit them better for whatever reason? If the demand was their I doubt DSG would be refusing to make investments to meet said demand, if it isn't there why should they (or the state)? We already have our ships built abroad and there's plenty of docks either in the UK or Europe depending on Brexit that would have a far higher throughput to sustain quality/workrate.
    History shows that all state moves/decisions on infrastructure were expedient but unfortunately not sustained. During WW11 we had the foundation of Irish Shipping a wholly state owned Shipping company, who also maintained the functionalty of the then Cork Dockyard. Most foundations for our transport systems, both internal and international were a legacy from the British, as indeed were all of our barracks. We have added very little except for piecemeal expansion by port companies for exclusive reasons. Critical assets such as ports need to be overseen by State agencies and expanded to meet modern requirements, including making provision for berthing and home porting Naval Ships.
    We built five of our post war ships at home and may have continued to do so , however our Government, in haste closed down Irish Shipping and Verholme Cork Dockyard. With population growth forecast we must be more expansionist and as self sufficient as possible. If for example we had a 250m drydock , it would be of international interest and also serve the needs of Irish Ferries. It is the hallmark of a Maritime Nation that it can maintain its own ships and be strategically independent.

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