Defence Force breaches of discipline soar by over 70% to 1,600

[Dogwatch]

'Quote:
Originally Posted by hptmurphy
Back in my day..less serious offences were dealt with the depot Bosun by being given the shit jobs..or being invited to the handball alley or a trip around the back of the billets to meet with the famous P.H. who is since long gone.'

The way it possibly should be, but someone will always abuse this position.. unfortunately. We have seen a rise in the charges because superiors (officers & NCO's alike) cannot give out dirty details anymore, one has to stick to Military Law........Period. If you don't like being charged, then tough, obey the law & the excuse of ignorance is not true, not in this day and age. Personnel joining now are given extensive lectures on all aspects of the DFR's, Military law, etc. If some is not willing to listen then... my heart bleeds.

God bless PH & 'Love & Hate'!

[hedgehog]

Is this just adding up all the bullshit charges as well as the serious ones? You know the kind of stuff you get from some extra-keen NCO who's spring-loaded to the "You're charged!" position.

Sadly thats the way its going mate

but what choice is there

In the old days for a minor infaracion such as late on parade - button open - dirty boots

(all minor in the scheme f things but as Soldiers we have to pay attention to detail)

anyway in the old days thee would be dealt with by a short sharp shock - 2 laps around

square rifle over the head - 30 press ups- and other such shite

You always had the discretion as an NCO- charge a man see him loose an overseas trip, get

a fine et - or deal with the matter there and then and get on with life.

Now after A7 what NCO in their right mind would risk their career by going the discretionary

route

Discpline at all imes has o be maintained now every breach of discipline is now dealt with

properly under military law- instead of common sense and discretion

And its no fun having to sit down and make out charge sheets and then march in in front

of the boss and present your evidence etc etc

[HavocIRL]

133. Insubordinate behaviour.


Reminds me of a great story I heard from an ex-bod.

Bunch of privates doing loads of manual labour. Officer comes over and starts giving out to the lot of them for taking so long. Pte. X pipes up

"Sir can you get charged for thinking something?"
"No, Private"
"I think you're a cnut"

[Bravo20]

'Quote:
Originally Posted by hptmurphy
The way it possibly should be, but someone will always abuse this position.. unfortunately. We have seen a rise in the charges because superiors (officers & NCO's alike) cannot give out dirty details anymore, one has to stick to Military Law........Period.

That's incorrect. "Interior Economy" and "Extra Interior Economy" are allowable punishments under recent guidelines. After, much scratching of heads and lot of questions off a lot of people, I discovered that interior economy is cleaning classroom, billet, cookhouse, latrines etc. However you cannot make them do it with their toothbrush as that is classified as demeening.

[hedgehog]

unfortunately. We have seen a rise in the charges because superiors (officers & NCO's alike) cannot give out dirty details anymore, one has to stick to Military Law........Period.

Actually Bravo Murph is technically correct- to use the corrective action route is a pain in

the arse- you are under a greater obligation than the clown who actually doing the cleaning-

you have to get approval of Pl Comd- write a report in the corrective actions book and then supervixe the task

Interior economy in the cook house is verbodden- the civvies would strike

In my soon to be 25 yrs I have never ever seen anyone injured or killed by the phrase

drop give me 30

the miscreant finishes his 30 for his indiscretion- his fitness improves-he suffers the short sharp shock

and when he gets up we all get on with life- no charges- no writing- no records etc

The way the Army is going now is fairly depressing me

I think it was Yates or Kavangh wrote that famous phone called the Al Ya Tun Blues

" I am tired of all this piss and cock
Get me off this ****ing rock"

Sorry about the naughty words but I was quoting a poem directly

[magister]

I hope this has never happened of course but what if you were a junior nco and you were on the beer in the mess and you were in the ablutions and you struck a sgt.

You had drink taken and you were in civvies. The sgt was in the same condition.

What would be the chain of events following this chain of events?

[Centurion]

A rich vein of possibilities there . . . Firstly, drunkeness for PDF members is strictly speaking a 24/7 365 No-No. Clearly, not a rule that's strictly enforced or there'd be no army. Being in civvies is irrelevant if they are both PDF as they are still liable to military law, if reservists and attending training etc the same rule applies.

So,

First strike - Drunkeness - both the cpl and the Sgt

Second - Striking or offering violence to a superior officer. Though the charge would be hard to prove if it could reasonably be shown that the Cpl did not know that the other party was a senior NCO (due to him being in civvies etc).

Third - an offence of common assault could also lie under S.169 (offences punishable by ordinary law), this might be an alternative to charging him for striking a superior.

And there's always 168 . . .

[hedgehog]

and you struck a sgt

Please tell me that Stuck is means hit a dig

and not something that dirty sailors do to each other

[DeV]

Also do not forget the situation is exactly the same for members of the RDF, if the person is subject to military law at the time:

(i) he is called out on permanent service or in aid of the civil power, or
(ii) he is called out for training, exercise or other duty under this Act, or
(iii) he is voluntarily attending training, or
(iv) he is undergoing treatment in a military hospital, or
(v) he is employed on military service under the orders of an officer, who is
himself subject to military law, or
(vi) he is in uniform,

[mikeym]

Also do not forget the situation is exactly the same for members of the RDF, if the person is subject to military law at the time:

(i) he is called out on permanent service or in aid of the civil power, or
(ii) he is called out for training, exercise or other duty under this Act, or
(iii) he is voluntarily attending training, or
(iv) he is undergoing treatment in a military hospital, or
(v) he is employed on military service under the orders of an officer, who is
himself subject to military law, or
(vi) he is in uniform,

That applies to females aswell.

[Truck Driver]

That applies to females aswell.

Where the word "he" appears in DFR's, it is taken to mean he or she. This amendment was put in place when female personnel entered the DF for the first time (1980?)