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  • Army blind to value of laser surgery

    Army blind to value of laser surgery
    The Sunday Times July 16, 2006
    Mark Tighe


    IN THE UK you would be welcomed with open arms. If you haven’t got it in America, they’ll even pay for you to get it. But in Ireland, don’t even bother trying to join the military if you have had laser eye surgery.
    The Irish army’s refusal to take recruits who have had laser eye treatment is angering medical experts, who claim the ban is out of step with medical developments.

    Irish regulations say military recruits’ eyesight “must be surgically untreated”. But disappointed applicants are eligible to join the British army, which recently relaxed a similar restriction. British recruits are now assessed individually and must show no side effects 12 months after the treatment, although restrictions still apply to those who want to join certain specialist forces.

    The US Naval Academy has been offering free laser eye surgery to recruits for the past five years. More than one-third of last year’s class of almost 1,000 recruits took up the offer, boosting the number of graduates with 20-20 vision and making them eligible for flight school or special forces.

    The increased number of graduates with “perfect vision” means the competition for coveted roles is tougher, and officers say this has increased standards as well as prolonging the time that pilots and special forces can serve in the field.

    One potential Irish defence forces recruit, who didn’t want to be named, said the ban meant he would be forced to go abroad to complete his dream of a military service.

    “I’m thinking of having laser surgery carried out,” he said. “My glasses are a pain when I’m out in the hills and the fog, or when rain comes rolling over the mountains. I’d prefer to serve my own country, but if it comes to it I’d be prepared to take the Queen’s shilling in order to pursue a military career.”

    Gerry Rooney, general secretary of PDFORRA, the defence forces union, said it was surprising the rule hadn’t been updated. “We will be engaging with the defence forces on this as whoever is making medical decisions is a bit more cautious and appears not to be reviewing the decision in light of current evidence,” he said.

    An increasing number of people who need perfect eyesight in their profession, or who find wearing glasses impractical, have opted for laser eye surgery. Top golfers Padraig Harrington and Paul McGinley had the procedure to improve their long range vision and competed in tournaments just days later. Actor Ewan McGregor had laser surgery so he wouldn’t need glasses on his round-the-world bike tour in 2004.

    The Mater Private hospital and the Blackrock Clinic in Dublin carry out nearly 2,500 laser eye operations between them every year.

    Michael O’Keefe, director of the Mater’s laser unit, said the army’s rule had no medical grounding. “There’s no risk to the eye from indirect trauma or physical contact,” he said. “We can carry out a procedure, Lasek, that doesn’t involve cutting a flap so there is no danger of it coming loose. It’s the procedure we would do for people who take part in physical sports or occupations.

    “A rule like this hasn’t been run past people like me who have a reputation in the business. I’ve been doing laser for 15 years. There isn’t a single medical reason why people who have been operated on can’t be a member of the defence forces.”

    The flap operation, known as Lasik, is much quicker to perform than Lasek and is less painful but in both cases the patient is expected to recover fully within six months.

    O’Keefe contrasted the stance of the defence forces with that taken by the gardai who consulted with ophthalmologists in 1998 prior to encouraging officers to go for the operation. Garda Medical Aid is the only medical insurance available to cover the procedure, offering up to €1,016 towards the cost of each eye.

    Increasingly gardai applicants who don’t meet eyesight requirements are told to come back once they have had the operation. The defence forces are also at odds with the Irish Aviation Authority. It permits pilots who have had the operation to fly six months after the procedure, as long as there are no side effects.

    Commandant Brian Cleary, a spokesman for the defence forces, said they were following best international practice but the rule was under review. “It is the issue of side effects that remains one of the major concerns,” he said.

    This claim was rejected by Bill Power, a surgeon at Blackrock Clinic. “In terms of long-term side effects this is not happening with approximately 20m people,” he said. “The US navy’s air corps would not have approved it for their pilots if they had any concerns.”

  • #2
    Lasers and eyes

    [MOD: Thread Merge]

    I was just wondering why one cant join PDF or cadets if that person has had eye surgery. Is ther a specific reason? Does it affect ones ability to soldier?
    Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face

    Comment


    • #3
      Night vision is not 100% and it can be damaged easily, but if you get a decent job, then the "Don't ask, don't tell." policy can be put into effect.
      Facts are meaningless - you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

      Comment


      • #4
        If you declare it you wont get in so like Darksaga says dont tell them

        Comment


        • #5
          Laser eye surgery weakens the structure of the eye. Also the long term effects of the procedure are still not known.

          The surgery itself leaves telltale signs on the eye that can be detected with the appropriate medical equipment.

          To not tell the military about it now could invite trouble later on, possibly charges and a discharge.
          It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bam Bam
            To not tell the military about it now could invite trouble later on, possibly charges and a discharge.
            Highly unlikely. The military authorities could do that if they wanted to but to be honest if you get in and they invest money in training you a discharge on those grounds won't happen.

            I trained a recruit who had only 30% vision in one eye. The doc didn't cop it on his medical. The bugger couldn't shoot to save his life because he couldn't see the target. They finally copped the problem when he did a medical for overseas, sent him off for laser surgery and bobs your uncle, he was in Kosovo a few weeks later.
            sigpic
            Say NO to violence against Women

            Originally posted by hedgehog
            My favourite moment was when the
            Originally posted by hedgehog
            red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

            Comment


            • #7
              In the medical, they dont look "at" your eyes to see scars or anything, its an eye test and you have to be able to read the second line. I cant remember if they ask if you had anything done, but they ask every thing else.
              EG: Have you ever had diarrhea?
              Facts are meaningless - you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

              Comment


              • #8
                I know of one person who entered, and serves as an officer who had laser eye surgery. When he applied he simply presented a letter from his consultant who had done a full exam of the eyes and concluded that it should not affect his career. As an expert in the field the consultants opinion was taken into account
                What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                Comment


                • #9
                  At the time I joined up if you admitted to having had the laser treatment your application to join was turned down also it was a criminal offence to have it done while serving as it was "illegal medical treatment" and they argued that you were damaging yourself and therefore damaging military property!!

                  In 2004 I finally grew a pair, sneaked off on leave, paid for the operation myself and went back to work a week later, if someone asked where the glasses where I just said I had contacts in.

                  Two and a half years later and it was the best two grand I ever spent.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is ther treatment in the DF that can help or do it for you?
                    Facts are meaningless - you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Typical army BS. If recipients of eye surgery are suitable for service in front – line forces like the US and UK, then they are suitable for the Irish Defence Forces. Even the Guards allow it, and you are far more likely to get a belt in the eye as a copper than as a soldier. QED.

                      I know of one person who entered, and serves as an officer who had laser eye surgery. When he applied he simply presented a letter from his consultant who had done a full exam of the eyes and concluded that it should not affect his career. As an expert in the field the consultants opinion was taken into account
                      The examples of rules being bent to allow common sense to prevail actually makes the system worse. For a disciplined force the DF seem incapable of applying any consistent set of rules. I went to college in Galway and the officers in my class simply could not rely on the Army to follow the rules in relation to the USAC scheme. Depending on the individuals involved there would be a zero – tolerance approach on one occasion and a “let it slide” on another. Officers never knew where they stood from one year to another. Ultimately it’s the better troops who just get on with the job who suffer in the end. It also leads to such a culture of whining and bitching.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [QUOTE=Bam Bam]

                        The surgery itself leaves telltale signs on the eye that can be detected with the appropriate medical equipment.

                        The procedure i got done, which was formally known as PRK, leaves no tell tale signs. I am almost a year over my surgery and the consultant informed that no one would ever know i got it done unless i told them. There was no scarring etc.
                        I dont have an alcohol problem, im just a social butterfly

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          FI - was it painful / was thre any sensation at all

                          how is your eye sight after it

                          Has your shooting improved

                          would I have had a better chance with you prior to said Op when your vision was dimmer
                          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                          Are full of passionate intensity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Eye lazer surgery is currently prohibited in HM forces.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The thinking behind it is

                              If you lads had left yourself alone

                              when you were teenagers and young adults

                              then your eyes would be perfect

                              you would be 6 ft 2

                              and that hair wouldnt have appeared on your palms
                              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                              Are full of passionate intensity.

                              Comment

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