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Thread: Naval weaponry

  1. #1
    CQMS
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    Naval weaponry

    I noticed looking at the news recently,that one of the aussie ships operating in the gulf is equipped with an RBS70. I heard that Eithne also has such a capability. Whats the story here?
    Meanwhile,are the current naval weapons any use against a modern adversary? The newer ships ,while the main armament is a 76mm OTO Breda,secondary armament is just .5 and gpmgs..what was wrong with the 20mm on the eithne and pvs? Considering the places that our ships have visited in the last 5 years,should a heavier secondary not be required with better self defence features such as chaff etc?
    Its fine haveing no agressive aircraft in the air corps,they wont be going much further than a UK airshow,but our Naval vessels have been in the eye of the storm,in the pirate infested waters of the south china sea,unstable suez area,Eritrea,Israel..all places where a stray terrorist shot is not unknown..

    Goalkeeper anyone?

  2. #2
    I.M.F.
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    Last time I cheaked the Eithne had a 57mm not a 20mm

  3. #3
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Check again smartass! She has both(thats it..from now on there is an intelligence test for all users..)

  4. #4
    CQMS
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    Eithne,for those who have not seen an irish naval vessel is armed with a 57mm Bofors in the B Position,and 2 20mm Rhein Metalls amidships port and starboard..



    Know your stuff before you try to criticise somebody

  5. #5
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Is there a need for such a system as goalkeeper? The NS spends the vast majority of it's time in Irish waters so it doesn't have any great need for extensive AA protection.

    Perhaps automated mounts like this one from Mauser would suffice:
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  6. #6
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    Damn thats ugly...not much different to what we already have. We spend a lot of time outside irish waters when visiting Overseas missions,courtesy visits to US,Russia,china etc... Eithne has in the past patrolled the waters of the Labrador coast..All western countries are now legitimate targets for terrorist attack,a tricolour is not going to protect us.Self contained CIWS might.

  7. #7
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    Don't CWS cost a million each and get fitted in pairs?
    As I understand it from former NS personnel who frequent this board the Eithne just doesn't have the construction to carry that many weapons systems.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  8. #8
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    The NS spends most of it's time in Irish or EU waters where it is unlikely to face an airborne threat, there had been one courtesy visit to the Far East & it's unlikely to be repeated any time soon. How many terrorists have you seen off the coast of Canada lately?

    If we look at recent terrorist attacks on naval targets they have involved using small craft packed with explosives, another threat might me light aircraft or uavs. There is no need for CIWS or Goalkeeper to deal with those threats, adequate numbers of GPMGs, HMGs and cannon will do the job. Perhaps there is merit in adding 20mm cannon to the new OPVs (maybe there's technical reasons that perclude it) but CIWS didn't save the USS Cole when it was attacked.

    That Mauser is an automated mount, we don't have automated mounts in that calibre.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  9. #9
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    NEW LIGHT NAVAL GUN SYSTEM - READY FOR SERVICE WITH THE GERMAN NAVY

    The new Light Naval Gun System MLG 27 from Mauser-Werke Oberndorf Waffensysteme GmbH, a member of Rheinmetall DeTec AG, combines light weight and high fire power. With its modern configuration it is the ideal replacement for the out-dated 20 mm and 40 mm systems and the perfect choice for new ships. The optimum combination of the highly efficient revolver cannon BK 27, the very latest ammunition technology, precise fire control and highly dynamic mount assembly ensures that the MLG 27 is the most modern gun available on the world market at present.

    The MLG 27 is a cost-effective solution for the protection of ships and boats and has proven its effectiveness during a live firing test at the German test range WTD 71. This demonstration took place in December 2000 in the presence of an international audience.

    The standardised system has been developed for fleet-wide use. MAUSER's concept has been to build the ideal system for new ships as well as for vessels requiring increased fighting power i.e. retrofitting existing units such as the 20 mm and 40 mm guns. The MLG 27, based on the very latest technology, is ideal for close range combat - in the defence of smaller boats or as a secondary armament for larger warships. Without deck penetration the Light Naval Gun System enables combat of:

    Highly agile and light sea targets at a close-range up to 2,500m
    Helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft at a close-range up to 2,500m
    Coastal point targets (armoured vehicles, snipers etc.) for self-defence up to 4,000m
    Combat vessels up to 4,000m

    The MLG 27 can therefore be used as a completely stand-alone solution. The mission is carried out via the gunner’s control station below deck. The integration into the ship’s command and control system (FüWES) taking into consideration the data interface of the Light Naval Gun Mount is possible. The efficiency of the world's most modern gun is increased even more by the layout of the interface and its integration into the fire control system.

    SYSTEM CONFIGURATION

    The Light Naval Gun System is characterised by the following features:

    The system is remotely operated via the gunner control station
    The gun is equipped with day- and night-vision sensors, which enables either an automatic target tracking or manual aiming of the gun
    A high hit probability is achieved by means of a precise fire control system, the high rate of fire and the accuracy of the MAUSER revolver cannon BK 27
    The newly developed 27 mm FAPDS ammunition (Frangible Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot) provides a reduced time of flight and increased combat range of the gun
    Limited weight of 850 kg
    Integration into almost all types of ships and boats
    An additional advantage of this compact weapon is its design between 20 and 40 mm with a tendency rather to 20 mm guns, which means lower weight, smaller dimension and a better mount assembly.

    The gun features a Gyro system which is LOS (Line of Sight) stabilised in two axis and powered by brushless servo-motors, which replace the existing electro-hydraulic driving units.

    FIRE CONTROL SYSTEM
    The company STN ATLAS Elektronik GmbH, also a member of the Rheinmetall Group, has provided a high-performance fire control system for the MLG 27. The substantial part of this system comprises the sensor unit, which is mounted direct at the gun. The unit consists of:

    TV- and IR-camera
    Laser-range-finder
    video tracking system (dual mode)
    interface electronic and power supply
    Due to the extensive electro-optical equipment the gun fulfils its mission during day or night and under limited visibility conditions.

    System Configuration of the Naval Light Gun System MLG 27:
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  10. #10
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    I'll take 2 please..

  11. #11
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Something like that may offer an improvement in capability over the manned 20mms, but without the cost of CIWS or Goalkeeper.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  12. #12
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The 57mm in action.
    All I would look for in naval weapons is commonality. At the moment,in a small fleet,we have 3 different main armaments,4 different secondarys. and numerous fire control systems.

    A more pressing decision is the replacement of the pistols used by boarding parties since the withdrawal of the Gustav. No doubt the ones currently in use are well salty by now.

    I fail to see though how a remotely operated secondary would be any better than a manually operated one.
    As for goalkeeper/Phalanx

    The best defence is a good offence. Do it to them before they do it to you..

  13. #13
    Closed account hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Excuse me who said you could use my photograph...I'll expect appearance fees if this continues.
    Pay them properly.....and they will come!

  14. #14
    Vague
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    For those of you who dreams of Irish Naval vessels have a proper surface to air ability i present u with the Russian Kashtan M

    two 30mm gatling type cannons on a turret fitted with TI sights, MMW radar and LLLTV systems and 8 SAMs
    Last edited by ForkTailedDevil; 8th February 2006 at 22:46.

  15. #15
    c22910
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    I have no such dreams.

  16. #16
    C/S Kieran's Avatar
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    goldie has a point about the boarding party weapons, any bap ive ever handled was fairly well worn.
    I miss goldie.

  17. #17
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    I think in a place where CIWS would be overkill,the above weapon would be just plain pointless. Might work on something like an Aircraft carrier or some form of auxiliary,but not much good for fisherys protection...
    Fail to prepare....prepare to FAIL!

  18. #18
    Closed account hptmurphy's Avatar
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    hey I'm famous..... the 20mm Rheinmatall when purchase was stae of the art given the lessons learned from the falklands. the Ganbo had not yet entered service.
    I reconthe best weapon avavilable for boarding parties is the crbine version of the steyr. baps din't have the same effect. Until the army adopts a new side arm The 9mm service pistol is all we have...I would change it for the world.

    whats wrong with the BAP anyway...reliable ...acurate...loads of stopping power..loadsa bullets...everything else is a development of the BAP.
    Pay them properly.....and they will come!

  19. #19
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Any naval vessel needs to have AD weapons, especially the case in Ireland, as the AC has little AD assets.

  20. #20
    cueball
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    The weapon systems currently in use with the service are adequte in a fisherys role and any warship would laugh at us, then use us for target practise.

    That is if they work when you want, the sight of seamen/gunners blank faces on many shoots is not an inspiring one.
    Every thing in the service is well worn a good long look should be given to improving naval gunnery equipment and small arms.

    Its just not funny any more, i had to sit through a leature the other day and endure a NBCD talk that while informative and well persented by the two ordanace officers was pure muck.

    "this is whats out there lads, but dont worry, if anyoff it used you dont have any chemical suits or protection of any kind so you'll be dead before you know it"

    A mericful death no doubt.

  21. #21
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Rhino's being test fired.

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  23. #22
    C/S
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    very clever but why was it necessary to bring two guns all tjhe way to the Curragh for firing? It couldn't have been cheaper than doing a test firing at sea on a routine patrol.

    regards
    GttC

  24. #23
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Not really. Weather conditions don't always permit, this time of year, plus you need to do it in the designated areas, keeping the ship away from the routine patrol area. At least, in the location above, you know whats over the horizon. There is no Butt Stop at sea.

  25. #24
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Edit...just saw its a test firing.
    Last edited by Jetjock; 13th October 2012 at 16:14.

  26. #25
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    Where do the empty shells go...couldn't see any being ejected?
    Oh Fortune...like the moon...you are changeable...

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