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Thread: Naval weaponry

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Based on my experience, quite often, the cheapest or most useful or most sensible solution to a problem was not taken up because it originated from an enlisted person or a non-Officer or a non-pilot. Quite often, the only way to get things done was to get an Officer on side and let him claim the credit for it. There were several times when I, and others like me, met outright refusal to adopt a course of action or prevent a course of action because the idea came from the shop floor, so to speak. It wasn't only confined to Officers but it was a prevailing attitude. When you operated in a hierarchy where the pilot officer was the dominating force above all, including fellow non-pilot officers, it could be very difficult to get things done. As any NCO will tell you, it was often easier to circumvent the system to achieve a task.

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    Too cynical by half.

  2. #52
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Based on my experience, quite often, the cheapest or most useful or most sensible solution to a problem was not taken up because it originated from an enlisted person or a non-Officer or a non-pilot. Quite often, the only way to get things done was to get an Officer on side and let him claim the credit for it. There were several times when I, and others like me, met outright refusal to adopt a course of action or prevent a course of action because the idea came from the shop floor, so to speak. It wasn't only confined to Officers but it was a prevailing attitude. When you operated in a hierarchy where the pilot officer was the dominating force above all, including fellow non-pilot officers, it could be very difficult to get things done. As any NCO will tell you, it was often easier to circumvent the system to achieve a task.

    regards
    GttC
    It's sad that your experiences in the Air Corpse has tainted your view of how things work in the rest of the Defence forces.

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  4. #53
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    I didn't only experience the Air Corps, you know. Some of the most cunning sleeveens I have ever met were Army and some of them were dumped in Baldonnel because of their activities elsewhere. I went into Baldonnel with lots of youthful enthusiasm,etc,etc and was rapidly disabused of that notion and my place in the foodchain, as an enlisted man, was swiftly made clear to me. I wasn't joking when I said that the pilot Officer was top of the chain, in every respect, no matter how good, bad or indifferent he/she is or was and anyone who has ever served there will know and understand exactly what I mean by that. It's different in the Army and Navy because the nature of them is different. You ask anyone in the Don who isn't a pilot, either Officer or enlisted rank and they'll tell you. I really had the scales lifted off my eyes in that place.

    regards
    GttC

  5. #54
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    And that is why it is losing every task allocated to it, one after another. It needs to be washed clean, and started over. It won't happen while ralph is a Maj Gen though.

  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    I didn't only experience the Air Corps, you know. Some of the most cunning sleeveens I have ever met were Army and some of them were dumped in Baldonnel because of their activities elsewhere. I went into Baldonnel with lots of youthful enthusiasm,etc,etc and was rapidly disabused of that notion and my place in the foodchain, as an enlisted man, was swiftly made clear to me. I wasn't joking when I said that the pilot Officer was top of the chain, in every respect, no matter how good, bad or indifferent he/she is or was and anyone who has ever served there will know and understand exactly what I mean by that. It's different in the Army and Navy because the nature of them is different. You ask anyone in the Don who isn't a pilot, either Officer or enlisted rank and they'll tell you. I really had the scales lifted off my eyes in that place.

    regards
    GttC
    I've heard the same thing about the RAF...
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  7. #56
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    boom boom

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  9. #57
    CQMS SpudGunner's Avatar
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    I'll never forget being a 19 yr old No.7 on the L60 at the ADR shoot in Gormo back in 1991.

    " AUTO ENGAGE!"

    "AUTO SET!"

    " FI.."

    BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOM

    All my subsequent shoots were as No.1. Never got to mash the foot pedal again.

    I have a great VHS tape of the 94 shoot I need to get on disc. All OD combats,sideburns and about a million rounds of 7.62 link for the MAG on the AD tripod.

    That 40mm 'hop' still gives me shivers.
    " I will not have my fwiends widiculed by the common soldiewy"

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  11. #58
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    Anyone notice the verdicts on the shooting being offered in the last few seconds?

  12. #59
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Interesting pictures on the NS facebook page.Pictures show what i think is an FNSW being used to cover an armed boarding team boarding a yacht.Is the NS using them now as standard for that role?I knew they used FN's for line launching but this is an interesting development.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  14. #60
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Along with a .5 station I'd never seen before that makes three weapons below 20mm in the mounted role on board one ship.
    Just visiting

  15. #61
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    This sounds interesting

    SUPPL & DELIVERY OF SHIPS MOBILE ARMOUR SYSTEMS
    Detailed description
    In general, the requirement of the contract is to provide gunners onboard Irish Naval Service Ships to have suitable ballistic protection against any threats which they may encounter in a potentially hostile environment. The supplies to be provided under the contract shall be carried out to the satisfactions of the Minister for Defence and his/her agent in accordance with the specified requirements. Irish Naval Forces personnel at both a local and contracts level will monitor quality of service

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  17. #62
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    This sounds interesting
    Removable ballistic protection (NIJ IIIA) for HMG/GPMG gunners (2 per ship)

  18. #63
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    This sounds interesting
    Hmmm, interesting. First operational deployment out of Irish waters????????

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  20. #64
    Rittmeister Herald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Hmmm, interesting. First operational deployment out of Irish waters????????
    Sounds like something you'd buy before heading into a low(ish) intensity environment all right.

    It also struck me as interesting that the new p60'S have about 6 mounting points for MG/HMGs as well.

  21. #65
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Hmmm, interesting. First operational deployment out of Irish waters????????
    I was thinking that too but what about the 20mm gunners?

  22. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I was thinking that too but what about the 20mm gunners?
    Well, unlike the other mounts - they've already got a big slab of armour plating to the front. It is an exposed position though.

  23. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I was thinking that too but what about the 20mm gunners?
    Is there not a shield on the front of the Rheinmetalls?
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  24. #68
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMolloy View Post
    Is there not a shield on the front of the Rheinmetalls?
    It isn't huge
    http://www.military.ie/typo3temp/pics/af96d1efe3.jpg

    These are 1.3 metres high x 2 metres around

  25. #69
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    well, any gunshield has to strike a balance between protection and being able to be moved around. A shield that is to heavy to swing by hand is pointless. There are other forms of protection available, such as ad-hoc "plastic protection", ie, shields of rubber, tarmac, kevlar and even concrete, which are raised instead of the railings, to act as splinter shields or bullet stoppers. The RN used them in WW 2 and they are easily made at local level.

  26. #70
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    I'd say it's something like this they are looking for so. Middle one.


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  28. #71
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herald View Post
    Sounds like something you'd buy before heading into a low(ish) intensity environment all right.

    It also struck me as interesting that the new p60'S have about 6 mounting points for MG/HMGs as well.

    The P40s already had 6 mounts for MG/HMG

  29. #72
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    Pretty sure that was 2 x HMG mounts and 4x GPMG mounts and this was prior to the upgunning of 2x 20mms on most of the ships
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  30. #73
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Pretty sure that was 2 x HMG mounts and 4x GPMG mounts and this was prior to the upgunning of 2x 20mms on most of the ships
    Check an old version of Janes they specify the weapons fit of the Peacock Class to be 4 x 7.62mm and one 76mm.

    .5 were only fitted on purchase. RN didn't use .5s We fitted them retrospectively and added the 20mms later.

    Would have been six dismountable weapons up to the Rh202s

    well, any gunshield has to strike a balance between protection and being able to be moved around. A shield that is to heavy to swing by hand is pointless.
    Shield on the Rh202s except on Eithne are quite substantial offering a good level of protection and don't affect the operation of the weapon due to the way in which the mount operates.

    Probably could do with changing Eithnes mounts as the shield is quite small.

    Hmmm, interesting. First operational deployment out of Irish waters????????
    Depends on what they fit it to, if its two the P50s and P60s I'd say possibly.

    If they fit it across the board, its just a general up grade as the Aisling , Aoife and the Peacocks next deployment will be in the tracks of Emer.
    Just visiting

  31. #74
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    the middle one looks like the whole setup can be dismounted and stored, fairly easily.

  32. #75
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    It is across the fleet but as they are to removable they can be fitted to any new vessels

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