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  • #46
    Would make sense only if said guns are not being swapped in and out of ships for maintenance etc, which I assume is the case.
    routine maintainence is carried out aboread by the Ships Gunners, the Leading Gunner being primarily responsible for the operational availability of the weapon.

    In the case of the 20mms the weapons are simplistic and straight forward and the only thing prone to wear being the barrels, the high rate of fire being the primary cause.

    Break Up shot on the barrels reduces the life time significantly.

    The guns themselves , given Eithnes were in place 20 years before the 'newbies' were acquired don't ever have to be removed, not saying they haven't been but the Rhino is a different kettle of Fish to the oerlikon which could be just 'popped out'

    If a gun can spend twenty years on a ship being pummeled about inn the worst weather conditions known to man, a few hundred miles on a truck won't hurt it.

    Some of the oerlikons in stores were built in 1938 and were still operational in 1986....and were still in operational conditions on retirement, which wasn't down to the gun, but the magazines!

    they don't come in boxes marked fragile...life time of the gun is incalculable......if that was the case no one would ever bring a rifle to the range!
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #47
      I am mildly amused at all of us trying to second guess naval command using supposition, conjecture and rumour. I am very sure that the navy costed the operation and arrived at the best course of action using the facts
      Last edited by Flintstone; 18 October 2012, 20:45.

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      • #48
        Hi all,
        very good replies all round. Flintstone, I am too cynical by half and I love the tireless optimism of the last line of your post. that cheered me up no end

        regards
        GttC

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        • #49
          Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
          Hi all,
          very good replies all round. Flintstone, I am too cynical by half and I love the tireless optimism of the last line of your post. that cheered me up no end

          regards
          GttC

          I agree that you are too cynical by half. Why do you think that my belief that the navy would cost an operation and arrive at the best course of action using the facts is tireless optimism. Your comment is a little opaque but none-the-less insulting to the navy.

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          • #50
            Based on my experience, quite often, the cheapest or most useful or most sensible solution to a problem was not taken up because it originated from an enlisted person or a non-Officer or a non-pilot. Quite often, the only way to get things done was to get an Officer on side and let him claim the credit for it. There were several times when I, and others like me, met outright refusal to adopt a course of action or prevent a course of action because the idea came from the shop floor, so to speak. It wasn't only confined to Officers but it was a prevailing attitude. When you operated in a hierarchy where the pilot officer was the dominating force above all, including fellow non-pilot officers, it could be very difficult to get things done. As any NCO will tell you, it was often easier to circumvent the system to achieve a task.

            regards
            GttC

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            • #51
              Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
              Based on my experience, quite often, the cheapest or most useful or most sensible solution to a problem was not taken up because it originated from an enlisted person or a non-Officer or a non-pilot. Quite often, the only way to get things done was to get an Officer on side and let him claim the credit for it. There were several times when I, and others like me, met outright refusal to adopt a course of action or prevent a course of action because the idea came from the shop floor, so to speak. It wasn't only confined to Officers but it was a prevailing attitude. When you operated in a hierarchy where the pilot officer was the dominating force above all, including fellow non-pilot officers, it could be very difficult to get things done. As any NCO will tell you, it was often easier to circumvent the system to achieve a task.

              regards
              GttC
              Too cynical by half.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                Based on my experience, quite often, the cheapest or most useful or most sensible solution to a problem was not taken up because it originated from an enlisted person or a non-Officer or a non-pilot. Quite often, the only way to get things done was to get an Officer on side and let him claim the credit for it. There were several times when I, and others like me, met outright refusal to adopt a course of action or prevent a course of action because the idea came from the shop floor, so to speak. It wasn't only confined to Officers but it was a prevailing attitude. When you operated in a hierarchy where the pilot officer was the dominating force above all, including fellow non-pilot officers, it could be very difficult to get things done. As any NCO will tell you, it was often easier to circumvent the system to achieve a task.

                regards
                GttC
                It's sad that your experiences in the Air Corpse has tainted your view of how things work in the rest of the Defence forces.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #53
                  I didn't only experience the Air Corps, you know. Some of the most cunning sleeveens I have ever met were Army and some of them were dumped in Baldonnel because of their activities elsewhere. I went into Baldonnel with lots of youthful enthusiasm,etc,etc and was rapidly disabused of that notion and my place in the foodchain, as an enlisted man, was swiftly made clear to me. I wasn't joking when I said that the pilot Officer was top of the chain, in every respect, no matter how good, bad or indifferent he/she is or was and anyone who has ever served there will know and understand exactly what I mean by that. It's different in the Army and Navy because the nature of them is different. You ask anyone in the Don who isn't a pilot, either Officer or enlisted rank and they'll tell you. I really had the scales lifted off my eyes in that place.

                  regards
                  GttC

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                  • #54
                    And that is why it is losing every task allocated to it, one after another. It needs to be washed clean, and started over. It won't happen while ralph is a Maj Gen though.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                      I didn't only experience the Air Corps, you know. Some of the most cunning sleeveens I have ever met were Army and some of them were dumped in Baldonnel because of their activities elsewhere. I went into Baldonnel with lots of youthful enthusiasm,etc,etc and was rapidly disabused of that notion and my place in the foodchain, as an enlisted man, was swiftly made clear to me. I wasn't joking when I said that the pilot Officer was top of the chain, in every respect, no matter how good, bad or indifferent he/she is or was and anyone who has ever served there will know and understand exactly what I mean by that. It's different in the Army and Navy because the nature of them is different. You ask anyone in the Don who isn't a pilot, either Officer or enlisted rank and they'll tell you. I really had the scales lifted off my eyes in that place.

                      regards
                      GttC
                      I've heard the same thing about the RAF...
                      'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                      'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                      Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                      He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                      http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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                      • #56


                        boom boom


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #57
                          I'll never forget being a 19 yr old No.7 on the L60 at the ADR shoot in Gormo back in 1991.

                          " AUTO ENGAGE!"

                          "AUTO SET!"

                          " FI.."

                          BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOM

                          All my subsequent shoots were as No.1. Never got to mash the foot pedal again.

                          I have a great VHS tape of the 94 shoot I need to get on disc. All OD combats,sideburns and about a million rounds of 7.62 link for the MAG on the AD tripod.

                          That 40mm 'hop' still gives me shivers.
                          " I will not have my fwiends widiculed by the common soldiewy"

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                          • #58
                            Anyone notice the verdicts on the shooting being offered in the last few seconds?

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                            • #59
                              Interesting pictures on the NS facebook page.Pictures show what i think is an FNSW being used to cover an armed boarding team boarding a yacht.Is the NS using them now as standard for that role?I knew they used FN's for line launching but this is an interesting development.
                              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                              • #60
                                Along with a .5 station I'd never seen before that makes three weapons below 20mm in the mounted role on board one ship.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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