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  1. #51
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Hi there
    How about some tips on personal field hygiene and carriage and disposal of personal hygiene kit? As someone said,memorably, on this website, it doesn't take long for people out on exercise to end up looking and smelling like homeless persons.
    regards
    GttC
    2 things.... rubber gloves and wipes.

    The wipes are in your ration pack. Doing anything with your hands, use surgical gloves: eating, cleaning rifle, medical etc.

    Wear Surgical gloves while cleaning your rifle to keep the cordite etc. of your hands. Wear them while eating to prevent contamination of your food (Obviously different gloves). Your FFD should be in a small ziplok bag with surgical gloves.

  2. #52
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    While the surgical gloves idea is a good one(especially for cleaning weapons)i have never seen anyone do it.Leather gloves yes as they are a help when taking a hot mug off a hexi stove.More on cooking later.
    Field hygiene eh,ok here goes.You need a pack of baby wipes,a folding toothbrush and small tube of paste,a razor and blades and a bar of soap in a plastic dish.Also needed is a small mirror and preferably a quick drying camp towel of sufficient size to dry your body.
    One crib i have always had with our exercises is that they are too short and too rushed.Most of the courses i have been on have been more concerned with "bug out's" in the morning than routine in the field.While this is all well and good,it doesnt teach a recruit anything about how to look after themselves on an extended op.I cant remember the exact % ,but the amount of soldiers lost to disease or infection spread by poor hygiene during time of war can be quite high.
    Every day while on the ground commanders should allow time where possible for troops to look after their hygiene.
    Use the babywipes to wash all the cam cream off your face,Now clean under your arms and privacy allowing your groin area.Talc or footpowder can be used in these areas to absorb sweat.This is not applicable to those on hard routine ie snipers ,recce etc.
    Men must shave at least once every 48 hours if there is a CBRN threat.If you dont you wont get a proper seal with the respirator. contd........
    Last edited by apod; 8th May 2010 at 14:41.

  3. #53
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    I know some of ye will bitch and moan about this ,but these are the facts.We are not special forces in the depths of the jungle where clean water is in short supply.And so what if you get a small nick while shaving.You wont suddenly develop gangarene!
    For shaving always use hot water.An obvious thing but you would be suprised how many cut corners on this one.A decent razor (not disposable they are shite) and a bar of antibacterial soap.Now this is where all the youngsters are gonna go WHA??.Use a shaving brush like your grandads to get a lather with the soap and use this on your face.Why not use shaving foam you ask.Ok.its bulky,can only do one job(soap can be used for washing also)and isnt antibacterial.Trust me use the soap.When finish shaving use a baby wipe moistened with a drop of warm water to rinse face off.

    Now for the other part.This may sound weird at first but has a good reason.Comb (and for the ladies Brush)your hair.I have never seen a shower in a basecamp in Ireland,so it stands to reason that after a few days your hair will be greasy and from sleeping on a forest or trench floor full of shit.A quick comb/brush will eliminate this.Otherwise get a haircut like Russell Crowe in Romper stomper

    Feet should be checked at every opportunity and socks changed and feet powdered also.You can empty a bottle of foot powder into a double lined(in case it breaks) large ziploc bag .Then when you want to powder them just stick your toe into bag.Never put powder into the boots themselves.It wil get soggy and clump up and form balls and ridges.
    Last edited by apod; 8th May 2010 at 14:43.

  4. #54
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    These can cause blisters aswell as clogging the pores in goretex boots.
    Co -locate your powder with the next pair of socks you intend to wear and put dirty laundry into a laundry bag away from clean clothes.Never wear the same pair of socks 2 days running as they will have absorbed sweat.
    Also have at least one pair of drysocks waterproofed in the bottom of your daysack.Dont use these except in an emegency.ie.getting separated from your pack.Work outta your bergan first.Two pairs of dri flo jocks should be sufficient for a week on the ground in this climate as long as you powder every day.One wet(on you) one dry(in bergan ).Cotton underwear should be avoided as once it is wet it stays wet.This will cause Ire.If you havent been issued driflos or cant afford to buy them.A good alternatve is cycling shorts.
    We in the PDF used to use these before the driflos came out.Some of us still swear by them.
    Bottom line is that hygiene is just as important as other drills and commanders at all levels have a responsibility to see it is maintained.
    Last edited by apod; 18th April 2009 at 14:00.

  5. #55
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Apod how about giving us a run down of what you carry for say a 72 hour ex and where (ie on body, CEFO, CEMO, Rocket Pouches, daysack). We don't need the ammo etc info. Just the stuff for personal admin. While their have been very useful spreads in Connect in the past and their is TM201, it doesn't go into a lot of detail on the type of eg clothing carried.

    Excellent tips so far keep them coming!!!

  6. #56
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Ok dev you asked for it.
    On body; (all year round,except in very warm weather)Smock.
    Top right pocket; issue spoon with hole drilled in handle to take idiot cord.
    lifeboat whistle c/w idiot cord(louder than pea whistle and wetproof)
    Shemag (if not worn)----------------(I now carry this in my daysack 18/8/07)
    Top left pocket ; silva type 4 compass(mills and degrees)c/w idiot cord
    Tac cards and orders book(tam is too bulky so i take out what i need)
    amn/cas cards
    waterproof notebook c/w pencils,chinagraphs,stabilo pens,eraser and
    sharpener.
    btm right pocket; Fingerless leather gloves.
    toilet paper(waterproofed)
    btm left pkt; Issue boonie hat(i have two ,bought one and cut out the lining for
    summer use)
    maglight torch c/w red filters and two spare btys(idiot corded)
    right sleeve pkt; ffd c/w surgical gloves and waterproofed.-----------(ditched the gloves,if wounded they wont think of em in the rush 18/8/07)
    left sleeve pkt; handiwipes
    inside pkt; spare trouser twisties/lens cloth(for sights&goggles)
    Last edited by apod; 18th August 2007 at 10:06. Reason: Lessons learned/better way to do things!

  7. #57
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Pants pkts; as little as possible as heavy weight on the legs slow your movement.
    Maps at most.No map cases,just a good ziploc bag.Lighter and easier to use.

    cefo/combat vest ; ammo etc
    full water bottle and issue metal mug c/w small ziploc of puritabs.
    (elastic band around mug handle to stop rattling)
    rifle cleaning kit(basic oil ,pullthrough etc)
    small immediate first aid kit(triangular bandages,plasters,tampons etc)
    petzl taktica headtorch(v.small c/w red filter for writing patrol reports )-----(have moved this to daysack 18/8/07)
    spare btys for torches and prr(taped in twos by size)-----------(now in daysack)
    mozzie repellant (lifesystems 100% deet.Issue rep only attracts them!)
    mozzie head net
    roll of black electrical tape
    leatherman
    spare ffd(waterproofed)
    gps unit (waterproofed)
    flexicufs and pw tagsx 2
    pacecounter tied clipped to left shoulder strap.
    marconi prr (left shoulder,when issued)
    spare toilet paper(2 packets in ziploc bag)-----------(daysack now)
    50 metres of paracord---------------------------(daysack,not needed unless static i.e harbours/ambushes)
    cyalumes(2 red/two green)for casualties,room clearing etc
    mini binos.(smaller and lighter than issue ones)
    small bag of boiled sweets.
    Last edited by apod; 18th August 2007 at 10:09.

  8. #58
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    shoot and scoot bag(daysack);

    All mission essential items when not in use i.e nve ,radios ,btys maps etc
    reserve ammo.
    goggles(if not on helmet) c/w spare lens)
    tam part one(in lid pocket)
    1x spare socks and footpowder(emergency use only)
    emergency ration/brew kit (tea ,sugar .etc,chocolate 1x boil in the bag and 4 hexi tbs )
    issue waterproof jacket


    bag is lined with a dry bag,All items ziplocked.if going on a long patrol from basecamp i pack my camelbak and a cold weather top.

    bergan;
    top pkt outer; secatuers,2x sandbags,cyalumes.
    top pkt inner; wash and shave kit c/w camp towel
    small polish brush,polish,spare laces,spare twisties.
    spare torch bty x2
    any other small items.
    Last edited by apod; 18th August 2007 at 10:11.

  9. #59
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    main compartment;(lined with drybag)

    waterproof pants(at btm of pack as seldom used)
    laundry bag
    sleeping bag inside bivvi bag(stored in a waterproofed stuff bag)c/w makralon skip cap
    snugpack sleeka jacket(if not worn)

    left side pouch;(lined)
    dpm pants(tropical cos they are lighter)
    long driflo top and btm(not carried during summer months)
    driflo shortsx1/driflo t-shirt x1
    dpm shirt(only worn in basecamp during summer months)
    5x spare socks and bag of footpowder.
    spare boonie hat
    waterproof gloves .

    right side pouch,
    large tupperware box to hold 48hrs rations(ration pack stripped down to what i WILL eat)
    issue thermal mug
    small gas stove(used to use hexi but too slow)c/w spare lighter in ziploc bag
    peltors(if not in daysack or worn)

    behind right side pouch; issue folding entrenching tool in a o.g plce cover.

    front pouch; issue basha,cords attached/7 metal pegs (wrapped in elastic band to avoid noise).

    Thats the lot.I know alot of you will ask why pack the spare clothes and
    rations in the side pouches?Simple.I use my daysack not rockets(too fiddly and small) thus i dont remove them from pack.I can access my spare kit without having to rummage thru everything else.All items are close to hand esp. rations.Also if rations break you dont have food all over your spare kit.You are also keeping soiled clothes away from food you will eat.By doing this i dont need to carry a rocket pouch harness either.It also reduces the height of the main pack thus allowing me to easily stow daysack under lid whilst tabbing.
    oh i forgot the kipmat is carried as described in one of my previous posts.Body armour when issued and not worn(ON TABS) would be carried under lid also.
    Last edited by apod; 8th May 2010 at 14:45.

  10. #60
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Thanks for taking the time.

  11. #61
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    For those who still use the hexi stove and cant get a metal mug to balance right on it ,try turning the stove over and pushing the prongs into the ground.The mug will now sit on the upturned stove perfectly.You then place the tabs on the ground underneath(dont worry they will still work).Before doing this dig a small pit to place stove in.Mud doesnt burn,it breaks the wind thus helping the water/food to boil faster. Also when you break camp you can replace the sod thereby helping to preserve the enviroment and reduce tell tale ground sign.
    Make sure you bring all trash with you in a ziploc bag.Why cant i bury it? Example (and sorry but this is gonna hurt but its true)was last year while training recruits.We occupied a basecamp site that had been occupied 24 hrs previously by a dublin RDF unit( no offence to dubs but thats where they were from!).The place was like a knacker halting site with ration pack rubbish everywhere and worse still they hadnt dug a latrine!! The sad thing was that for some recruits who had no previous military experience and had never encountered the RDF,this was their first impression.All i could hear was recruits muttering under their breath "****ing sandbags". As i have said before act professional and you will be seen as professional in your habits thus breeding respect.

    P.S: The new hexi stoves come with a adaptor for the metal mug.for those who still choose to use them
    Last edited by apod; 18th April 2009 at 14:03.

  12. #62
    Viking HavocIRL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Make sure you bring all trash with you in a ziploc bag.Why cant i bury it?Example (and sorry but this is gonna hurt but its true)was last year while training recruits.We occupied a basecamp site that had been occupied 24 hrs previously by a dublin fca unit( no offence to dubs but thats where they were from!).The place was like a knacker halting site with ration pack rubbish everywhere and worse still they hadnt dug a latrine!!The sad thing was that for some recruits who had no previous military experience and had never encountered the fca,this was their first impression.All i could hear was recruits muttering under their breath"****ing sandbags".As i have said before act professional and you will be seen as professional in your habits thus breeding respect.

    Funny you should mention that. My first time out on the ground we occupied a patrol harbour in stranaheely and were told it was used two nights before by a PDF platoon. Same conditions as you mentioned above. Except for the latrine bit.
    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

  13. #63
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    excellent posts Apod. well thought out raesoning for where everything goes.

    just a few variations for people to consider also.

    i like to carry my boonie hat and/or head-over and meraklon gloves all in one of the lower smock pockets. in the other i put mozzy net, mozzy cream, cam cream small torch, toilet paper, etc.
    i then carry any loose ration items e.g. boiled sweets, chocolate, biscuits, etc. in one of the chest pockets. this way you keep them in one place and can get munchies quickly at rest stops, re-orgs etc. in the patrol harbour each evening refill pocket from rations in the bergan.

    i agree with carrying little more than maps in the trousers.
    get some elastic material from a home furnishing shop and thread it into the bottoms of the combat trousers. knot the ends of the material together and your combats are permanently elasticated. no need to carry any trouser twistys and material will never unhook like twistys can.
    wear a pair of braces for combat trousers. this way they will not move down even when soaking wet or caked in mud, etc. anybody who remembers the old olive drab combats will know how heavy they got when wet through.

    i do carry a small stove (gas or hexi whichever you prefer ) in one of the utility pouches on my cefo. i also fill it with the remaining meals/brew items from a 24hr ration pack and waterproofed fuel and a lighter. that way you can operate for 24hrs with what you wear and cefo if the worst comes to the worst ( i know it rarely happens but always nice to be able to get a hot brew or food ). this way on your cefo you have ammo, water, and food.

    usually i have the right and left ammo pouches and three utility pouches set up as Apod described. one utility pouch with waterbottle/cup, one with stove and rations, third for rifle cleaning kit, first aid kit ( all waterproofed ) and spare ammo, gpmg belts, equipment to task as required.
    Last edited by X-RayOne; 2nd October 2006 at 23:45.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  14. #64
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HavocIRL View Post
    Funny you should mention that. My first time out on the ground we occupied a patrol harbour in stranaheely and were told it was used two nights before by a PDF platoon. Same conditions as you mentioned above. Except for the latrine bit.
    Sorry ,did i touch a nerve? Having said that yes i have seen some poor standards from PDF personnel on occasion,but never as bad as this.I swear to god it looked like a landfill site.In general pln sgts of PDF platoons inspect the basecamp site before we move off.God help anybody who leaves trash behind.

    For those who still insist on using bthe rocket pouches a good trick is to attach the harness to the pouch with your warm kit (if you pack the tm201 way) and then zip on the pouch to the bergan making sure to tuck away all the loose straps.Thus if you need to ditch your pack your single pouch acts as a mini shoot and scoot bag.Thats what we were thaught in recruit trg many moons ago.Much prefer the daysack method myself as you can pack more in.
    Last edited by apod; 8th May 2010 at 14:47.

  15. #65
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I've got a hydration pack (worth the weight of a container full of them in gold) it only has a small pocket on the front. Its not one of the big flashy expensive ones it does what I ask of it. Its grand if I'm wearing CEFO or reduced CEMO, but, when I'm wearing CEMO if I put it anywhere else apart from either over or under the flap on the bergen, it unbalances it the bergen.

    Therefore I've got a couple of cheap carabiners (one attached to the top of the hydration pack and one to the bottom), I clip them to the bergen where ever I can (I've found that the straps behind the rocket pouches are handy for this.

    It means that if I want to get something out of the bergen, I may have to unclip one of the carabiners but it just takes a moment. It works for me.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    In general pln sgts of pdf platoons inspect the basecamp site before we move off.God help anybody who leaves trash behind.
    Unfortunately these days, that only means an essay, as shouting at people only hurts their feelings.
    One little tip from me:
    don't bring your foot powder with you in the original container; empty it out into a large ziploc bag. Then you apply it to your feet by inserting one foot at a time and shaking the bag. This means that you lose less powder, and you don't spill any onto the deck near your bivvy. Keep this ziploc bag in your socks bag; thus, if it bursts, the powder will be on your socks, and won't be wasted entirely.

  17. #67
    Searcher :) Joshua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parts View Post
    Unfortunately these days, that only means an essay, as shouting at people only hurts their feelings.
    Rookie, Bailer etc take note. Way before my time.......

  18. #68
    Private 3* Saracen's Avatar
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    Tips which I find Useful

    Pack: Use a heavy duty industrial binbag to line your pack. Has to be heavy duty to stop noise and retain airtight integrity. Don’t use Biodegradable bags! Don’t laugh, I’ve seen it done. Flakes apart after a couple of months. The Packs are supposed to be weather proof but after a couple of days in the rain its anything but.
    The pack will have enough reserve buoyancy to float if you have to ford a water obstacle (river, canal etc). You can place your weapon on the pack, in the ready position. Also useful if members of your team can’t swim. Plus all your kit remains dry.
    Ziplock bag everything in your pack.
    Clothes, you can squeeze the air out and increase space in the pack.
    Pieces of kit are easy to locate and redistribute in your pack. Eliminates cross contamination. Second layer of weatherproofing . Wet gear weighs more.
    Can be used for everything – food storage/longevity, rubbish, kindling (fire), latrine.
    Ziplocking faeces - wait about 15mins to cool, otherwise air will heat and bag will inflate and increase risk of “popping”. Always double bag and use top pouch on Pack for segregation.
    Always have matches and a lighter again use ziplock bags. Zippo lighters continuously leak and require topping up every couple of days so I don’t use them, always the possibility will contaminate food.
    E&E Kit - Candle. Always bring a half a candle with wick showing. Can be used as kindling for fire –shave wax off with knife. Use for light, sterilising cutting instruments, needles for stitching etc.
    Bug Juice – Best stuff on the market “Avon Moisturiser”. It’s the business, I kid you not. Trust me, I tried them all, this actually works so raid the missus cosmetic locker and nick her Avon Moisturiser. No other moisturiser will work.
    Wipes – Go for something like Dove or Natural Waterproof Mascara/Make up removal wipes. They have no scent (they do but its minimal) and great for removing camo cream.
    Toothbrush – cut in half to reduce weight and space.
    Shaving foam and toothpaste can be bought in small tubes (for travellers). Boots are ideal for this.
    Compass – place loop through buttonhole of left breast pocket of smock. You don’t have to rummage around in pocket to find it. You will never lose it as it is secured to your pocket. The buttonhole is so big you can still close your pocket.
    Whistle – place loop through right breast pocket buttonhole. Same thing, find instantly and never lose it.

    The above I find useful to me. I hope they’re of use to others here.
    Once more unto the breach, dear friends

  19. #69
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Parts View Post
    Unfortunately these days, that only means an essay, as shouting at people only hurts their feelings.
    I hear that!!!!

  20. #70
    BQMS Liachta Cultaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    If you're rich, get one of these: http://www.jetboil.com/Products/Cook.../Personal-(PCS)

    Great Outdoors in Dublin do them. Very much worth it. Get the stand (goes onto the bottom of the cylinder to stop it falling over) and pot support (lets you use a metal mug/mess tin instead of the jetboil cup) too.
    How do you cook your main meal from the ration pack using this system??
    I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

  21. #71
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    use the pot stand for the main meal in the rations. just rest the main meal container on the stand and cook away. open the container a little to stir the contents just to make sure its all evenly heated.

    the boil in the bag meals fit into the cup no problem. scrunch them up a bit, put in the cup and add water till about half full. boil away for a few minutes, take the boil in the bag out and stir it a bit in case there are any cold spots and munch away. u will also have enough boiled water in the cup for a nice brew of coffee or tea.

    as most people seem to use metal mugs instead of mess tins nowadays, its probably a good idea to buy the pot stand if thinking of getting one. this way u dont need to bring the jetboil cup on the ground. thus taking up even less space in your kit.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  22. #72
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    a tip for sleeping on the ground.

    if you use a lightweight sleeping bag (2-3 season, snugpak, etc ) get yourself a sleeping bag liner. they simply fit inside your bag and will give extra warmth for cold weather without the extra bulk of an artic or winter bag in your bergan.

    sleeping bag liners can be got in loads of different materials, cotton, silk, fleece, etc. depending on how much extra heat you want. and are pretty cheap too.

    they will pack up to the size of about an apple if not in your bag already.

    they can be thrown in the washing machine and tumble dried also. so if you have to sleep in your boots only the liner is dirty and your bag is still clean.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  23. #73
    Lt General Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    use the pot stand for the main meal in the rations. just rest the main meal container on the stand and cook away. open the container a little to stir the contents just to make sure its all evenly heated.
    Not recommended if you get a main meal in a plastic container In that case, metal mug and pot stand are the best combination.

  24. #74
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
    How do you cook your main meal from the ration pack using this system??
    This is the way i was thaught how to cook the main meal in recruit training by one of my instructors who was ex-ARW
    Shake the main meal foil pack and then press down in the middle of the lid with your thumb so it make s a small dent.Now place the meal directly onto the hexi stove.Watch the pack.When the dent rises,remove pack from heat and shake(make sure you wear leather gloves to avoid burns!)>repeat this process 5-6 times and your meal will be cooked.Simple .Essentially what you are doing is cooking the meal like in a pressure cooker.The advantages are its quick.Not messy and if you get a bug out mid cooking you can throw the meal into your bergan and leg it without your food spilling everywhere.The disadvantages is that you have to watch it carefully so it doesnt explode.

    Try it the next time you go on the ground.It works!

    p.s dont try this with the plastic main meal containers people!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by apod; 8th May 2010 at 14:49.

  25. #75
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    "The advantages are its quick.Not messy and if you get a bug out mid cooking you can throw the meal into your bergan and leg it without your food spilling everywhere."

    nice idea especially being able to keep the meal for eating after a bug out. had to leave a main meal once....wasn't a happy bunny.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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