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Works of fiction/Waltering/Dreaming/"We need hovertanks!"

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  • #46
    No. CQ is far to refined to carry that thing which would only be carried by a denizen of Moore St. CQ is a Louis Vuitton woman.
    Meh.

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    • #47
      Just a gentle reminder of the topic of this thread:

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      • #48
        It is quite beautiful.

        All the details needed can be found here ...

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        • #49
          Every time I feel like slagging LL , I remember I'm just about old enough to be his father, (though I’m not ancient).

          John, as usual you raise a very interesting point, but they’ll find it difficult to justify 10,500 men in the long term, in view of the desperate need for equipment. More importantly, the defence forces has always gone for men rather than equipment, but the situation has changed. 2 infantry battalions and a cavalry squadron are tied up on border duties. As that decreases, and its difficult to envisage another Omagh, it will be hard to justify keeping those units existent (for example if the British demilitarize South Armagh, should Dundalk barracks be kept open, along with places like Cavan and the smaller posts? These closures will be tied into a wider deal and sold as part of the peace process, and the barracks along the border, all of which swallow resources are bound to close in the coming decade And coming from a business background, the defence forces were badly managed for decades, its like somebody in 1922 said, “right, we should have an army”, but nobody bother to think about it again until the Gleason era. Without being shot, is the FCA too big? lots of comparisons between it and the Territorial in the UK on the board, without the recognition that the Territorial army is only 40,000 strong, or less then half the size of the regular British army, Lots of mention of unfit members in the FCA, would we be better off with a reserve in the same proportion to the PDF as the British have? Ireland is in the age of the car, lots of reservists, especially the motivated ones, have access to a car, and could be paid mileage to attend training, and when you think about it, lots of them already do in rural areas. There are also too many barracks, and places like Kilkenny, Mullingar, Clonmel, swallow resources, and really not justifiable in military terms. There are also a lot of paper units, in reality the defense forces has one artillery regiment, equipment wise (24 L-118 = 3 8 gun batteries) , except that in theory it has three regiments, (Six counting the reserve), with three separate barracks, three officers drawing Lt Colonel salaries, when in reality it would survive with one regiment with four batteries) and to tell you the truth, might be better off. Does the cavalry corps need four barracks for four cavalry squadrons (Long ford, Cork, Dublin and the Curragh), or would one cavalry battalion with 2 reconnaissance squadrons and an armored regiment like the one I proposed with modern equipment at one or maybe two barracks be a better use of resources, especially as overseas deployments mean thinking about battalion sized task forces rather than at brigade level? While the seven battalions proposed by PWC were slagged off as decreasing resources, especially on this board, nobody does the simple math that the scheme would have given the PDF 21 infantry companies, compared to the existing 18, although only 7 lt. Cols in command compared to the present nine). Dare I say it, jobs for the boys? At the time of the first round of cuts, there was a lot of moaning from the officer corps who pointed out to the newspapers, that the PDF was going from 5 to 3 brigades, which was absolute bollix, the defence forces never had anything remotely like 5 brigades; they did however have 5 Brigade headquarters and 5 Brigadiers. Then again, I will freely admit that closing barracks is very difficult, I might think that keeping a barracks in Mullingar for example given that its down the road from Athlone, is pointless, I don’t live there, and realise that its closure would have the same economic effect in the region as closing a major factory.


          Secondly, how resources are spread also needs to be examined, as a former gunner, who thinks that all airmen are closet, if not completely open poofs, and all fighter pilots are challenged by an inadequate phallus, even I admit that the air corps needs to be bigger (more if the air defence option is explored) to provide an effective army. The naval service is crying out for at least four more vessels, but they cost a lot to buy, and need crew, they have to come from somewhere.

          Thirdly, is Ireland rich, where is the money to come from? You’ve got to remember that despite the hype about the Celtic Tiger, there is the whole GNP/GDP debate, sure, companies invest in Ireland, they do so because they pay such low levels of corporation tax, which although a major source of income in other European countries, isn’t a significant factor here; assuming you’re a PAYE tax payer whose resident in Ireland, you’ll know that personal taxation, and indirect taxes on consumer goods is very high. Ireland has a crappy infrastructure, it is going to be difficult to get people to pay for things like tanks, which while we know are necessary for training, aren’t really to the man in the street who has sick children. Other countries spend lots on defence, but if they draw it from a wider range of sources, in Ireland it means either drawing it from some other government department or putting up personal taxation, both of which would be political suicide for any government, even one with an overall majority of Blueshirts to the right of Goldie Fish.

          Personally, I think that the Europeans will ask us to provide an effective battalion group, with another one in reserve for deployment on 60 days notice, and won’t really care how we provide it, as long as we do. And if one of the ways that is provided is pruning our defence forces to make them leaner, then I for one think that there is some way to go for that, even though I realise that it would be very difficult to do. But there is a whole list of things that the defence forces will need, an artillery counter battery radar system like ARTHUR is a must, small UAV’s for FIBUA, sufficient helicopters for training ground troops and special forces, effective reconnaissance and fire support vehicles to support a mechanised infantry battalion, all of which are expensive and have to be paid for.

          Again apologies for being off topic

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          • #50
            You make some strong points (including a number about swallowing our pride with regards to the size of the DF, and the old boys factor), I admit that most of my hypothesising about defence is based on a fictional future state with it's health and social services sorted out, sometimes in my my enthusiasm I forget that we are a good ten or twent y years away from infrastructure that could and should have happened in the 60's.
            Just one major critiscism, try if possible to keep your sentences short enough to fit in a standard window, its a complete bastard to read through sidewards and downwards scrolling text.
            The handbag thing I don't get.
            "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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            • #51
              I blame the picture above

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              • #52
                Ah, I didn't notice that.
                My apologies to Mr. G
                "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                • #53
                  That was funny

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                  • #54
                    What Type of Armour is Available to the DF?

                    Is the scorpion the only amour available to the defence forces, also is there a main battle tank in use???

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                    • #55
                      The Scorpion is the only tracked armour in the DF, you can see more on my site if you like www.geocities.com/irisharmoredvehicles/ .

                      IAS

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                      • #56
                        Whalesong,

                        For future reference, IDF stands for Israeli Defence Force. When talking about the Irish Defence Forces, you can use DF when talking about the force in general, PDF (Permanent Defence Force) when talking about the regular army & RDF (Reserve Defence Force) when talking about the reserves.
                        "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by ias
                          The Scorpion is the only tracked armour in the DF,
                          Don't forget the Comets and churchills etc. although I assume Whalesong is referring to operational armour.

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                          • #58
                            Wheeled armoured vehicles consists of AML 90, AML 20, and MOWAG Piranha III APC.

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                            • #59
                              Dont forget the Sisu...


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                              • #60
                                Anyone know the price of a challenger 2?

                                was talkin to a mate of mine who is ex british army, he told me about his mate a troop Sgt in the TA, he's got his own tank which i thought was quite a long way from what we reservist get, but anywho some thing was said bout the price of the challenger2- he said it was £60million which is a lot more than i thought (£5million), Does anyone have a more accurate or correct price?
                                But there's no danger
                                It's a professional career
                                Though it could be arranged
                                With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
                                If you're out of luck you're out of work
                                We could send you to johannesburg.

                                (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

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