No, acid drop, I haven't. I decided not to call Embraer directly as the cost of a call to Brazil is a bit high so I hit the internet instead. Wiki's gen on the KC 390 is quite outdated so you don't have to believe it....apart from that, I have only once ever spoken directly to a DoD person (in the Don, when a new toy was being unveiled) and his one-word description for the AC was "dreamers", followed by a sigh and a shake of the head.
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No "switch" to call for you in EI?
My 7 year old nephew could tell you that Wikipedia is probably the most unreliable source you can reference. At least use something halfway credible. I'm sure your google search contained a press release or two, or even better, something from Janes. Picking the first one is just lazy.
Not sure what the "dreamers" anecdote adds to the discussion either? Ironically enough, suggesting that the KC-390 is a suitable CASA replacement is just like what you allegedly heard - dreaming.Last edited by Chuck; 30 May 2018, 18:48.
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The DoD man didn't elaborate but I understood exactly what he meant....the AC can ask for all they would like, but what they'll actually get is another matter. Given that the -295 appears to be the only game in town for future Irish MPA, then that's what I expect will actually roll onto the ramp and the Donners will smile politely and sign where the DoD man says.
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostJust occurred to me you could have two 90mm OPVs for the price of three C130Js.......now why do we need MPAsCovid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by ropebag View PostSerious question, because I'm not a fishead, but how much more effective (yes, I know...) do you think would an 11 ship NS be than a 9 ship NS with 3 high end MPA's?Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by ropebag View PostSo why aren't they flying off the shelves?
New C-130's are expensive, A400m is expensive, late and not perfect, C-2 is expensive if very good - so why isn't the 390 flying off the shelves given the apparatus confidence than any buyer could have in it?
I know you work in the industry, and so you've a good grasp on the what works, and what's a pain in the arse end of this - so why is there this marked lack of confidence on the part of buyers?
If we look at Europe most countries looking for a tactical airlifter have committed to the A400M many decades before anyone thought about a KC-390. But a number of countries have expressed their intention to order the aircraft, these include Portugal and Czech Republic. Sweden was consider a key potential customer until it pushed back its replacement date for its C-130s.
But a major issue is still when will the aircraft enter serial production for BAF, there was an issue that the Brazilian government paying for the aircraft. There was the chance that the program could be postponed/delayed. This makes any potential other customer less likely to order as without the Brazilian order there is no program.
There is now a co-operation agreement between Boeing and Embraer which should mean that over the next decade the program should become a success especially as the older C-130 (E & H) versions reach the end of their lives. Even some C-130Js will begin to reach the end of the lives as the first ones entered service 20 years ago.
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One question that could be asked is why go for a manned MPA?
I am not talking of a MQ-4C Triton but there are other platforms which could provide maritime ISR:
http://www.ga-asi.com/Websites/gaasi...ian_032515.pdf
http://www.p1hh.piaggioaerospace.it/
http://elbitsystems.com/media/hermes...itime_2016.pdf
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostOne question that could be asked is why go for a manned MPA?
I am not talking of a MQ-4C Triton but there are other platforms which could provide maritime ISR:
http://www.ga-asi.com/Websites/gaasi...ian_032515.pdf
http://www.p1hh.piaggioaerospace.it/
http://elbitsystems.com/media/hermes...itime_2016.pdf
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Originally posted by DeV View PostBecause they can’t do anything except surveillance (and possibly engagement)
The point is MP-UAV are a much more cost effective way of providing maritime ISR, cheaper to procure, cheaper to operate, no need for expensive traditional pilot training etc. I just think that the option should have been explored.
The non-MPA tasks is the RFP are nice to haves, if they are core needs then there would be no reason why a tactical transport (or two) along side 3-4 MP-UAV could not be acquired. The cost should not be so much different as the cost of the kit to transform a platform such as the C-295 into a MPA is close to that of a MP-UAV.
Just thought the option should have been explored, Israel is replacing its Sea Scan MPAs with MP versions of their Heron UAV which will have a 45hr patrol endurance!Last edited by EUFighter; 1 June 2018, 00:56.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostAnd?
The point is MP-UAV are a much more cost effective way of providing maritime ISR, cheaper to procure, cheaper to operate, no need for expensive traditional pilot training etc. I just think that the option should have been explored.
The non-MPA tasks is the RFP are nice to haves, if they are core needs then there would be no reason why a tactical transport (or two) along side 3-4 MP-UAV could not be acquired. The cost should not be so much different as the cost of the kit to transform a platform such as the C-295 into a MPA is close to that of a MP-UAV.
Just thought the option should have been explored, Israel is replacing its Sea Scan MPAs with MP versions of their Heron UAV which will have a 45hr patrol endurance!
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Originally posted by DeV View Postthey are not multi role, they can only do ISTAR. They are cheaper to procure and operate but that doesn’t mean they aren’t still expensive. UAVs of that size still require certified pilots.
Originally posted by DeV View PostThere are also I believe, limitations on them for an airspace regulation point of view.
Originally posted by DeV View Postno they aren’t (they are roles assigned by Government) they may the CASA a multi-role more versatile and better VFM aircraft.
Multi-roles does not always mean better VFM, "Jack of all trades/master of none!".
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Originally posted by DeV View PostBecause they can’t do anything except surveillance (and possibly engagement)
Realistically it is more prudent to consider maritime RPAS platforms as capability enablers that extend the prime manned platform rather than a silver bullet solution.
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Originally posted by Anzac View Post...Realistically it is more prudent to consider maritime RPAS platforms as capability enablers that extend the prime manned platform rather than a silver bullet solution.
RPAS are a piece in the jigsaw, they don't replace everything.
Interestingly, it takes more people to put an MQ-9 Reaper in the air than it does a Sentinel, Sentry or RIVET JOINT - cheaper to buy they may be, and long endurance they are, bit cheap to make operational they aren't.
RPAS also don't do judgement calls 400 miles out into the Atlantic in a near hurricane force storm - people do that, and people who are there and can feel the pressures on the flight controls make much better ones than people watching it on TV.
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Originally posted by ropebag View PostThis.
RPAS are a piece in the jigsaw, they don't replace everything.
Originally posted by ropebag View PostInterestingly, it takes more people to put an MQ-9 Reaper in the air than it does a Sentinel, Sentry or RIVET JOINT - cheaper to buy they may be, and long endurance they are, bit cheap to make operational they aren't.
Have to say whoever spun the meme about keeping Rivet Joint in the air being cheaper than a MQ-9 ... yeah right .. I'ii just leave it there.
Originally posted by ropebag View PostRPAS also don't do judgement calls 400 miles out into the Atlantic in a near hurricane force storm - people do that, and people who are there and can feel the pressures on the flight controls make much better ones than people watching it on TV.
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