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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    One of the major benefits of MATS is that they are available at short notice without the need to book flights - does the need for written permission not defeat the object ?
    Step 1. Call Enda "Can I use the Jet this wkend"
    Step 2. Enda says yes
    Step 3. Go on trip and get underlings to arrange paperwork.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      One of the major benefits of MATS is that they are available at short notice without the need to book flights - does the need for written permission not defeat the object ?
      Nope - it is an expensive asset, and it's use needs to be managed accordingly
      As TRJ says, I'm sure there are protocols in place, all the Minister (or his minions) had to do was to follow them
      Own goal for DoD there... even more so when I see the €64K expenditure (plus €700+) on the Govt jet versus an expenditure of €16K !!!
      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

      Comment


      • Absolutely TD but:

        If it was a case of a phone call, they wouldn't book "back-up commercial flights" as they would have the answer quicker than it took to book the flight.

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        • It's all about political point-scoring and not about the money. Inda couldn't give a rat's ass about a few grand's worth of kerosene. Against the grand scheme of our "public" debt, it's nothing. This is about gouging an unpopular Minister.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Absolutely TD but:

            If it was a case of a phone call, they wouldn't book "back-up commercial flights" as they would have the answer quicker than it took to book the flight.
            True
            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

            Comment


            • Alan Shatter took government jet after being refused use

              Justice Minister Alan Shatter was officially told that he could not take a government jet to Brussels – before he broke cabinet rules and booked a state-owned private plane without permission.

              The Irish Independent earlier revealed how Mr Shatter was reprimanded by the Taoiseach’s office for ordering a government jet to pick him up from a European Union engagement.

              The minister’s office was forced to admit that it “regretted” the infringement of strict cabinet guidelines after Enda Kenny's department had demanded an explanation for the flight.

              This newspaper has since learned that Mr Shatter made a formal application to take the jet to the EU defence ministers’ meeting – but this was rejected by Mr Kenny’s officials.

              Cabinet members must apply in writing to the Taoiseach’s department for use of either the Gulf Stream IV or the Lear Jet. The rules were issued to ministers after Fine Gael and the Labour Party made election promises to reduce the number of air miles clocked up by jet-setting politicians.

              Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act show Mr Shatter applied to take the jet on a one-day round trip to Brussels on November 19 last year. It later transpired that meetings would take place over two days and the minister’s office withdrew the request and sent in an updated application.

              The second request form stated that the minister was scheduled to attend three meetings in Brussels and needed to return on the following day to open a conference in Ireland.

              It added: “If the minister is to fulfil his Defence and Justice obligations, the government jet is his only option.”

              A spokesman for the Taoiseach said a “phone conversation” took place with the Department of Defence after the second application and the request was turned down. The spokesman said: “We didn’t interpret it as a refusal; we thought it wasn’t going any further after the phone conversation. But Defence obviously interpreted it as a refusal because they were not going to get the jet.”

              However, despite having been told he could not use the jet, Mr Shatter then bypassed the Taoiseach and contacted the Air Corps while in Brussels because he feared that he would be stranded due to airline strikes.

              Permission

              The government-owned Lear Jet then flew the minister and four of his staff, along with European Affairs Minister Paschal Donohoe and two of his officials, back to Dublin.

              The taxpayer-funded trip cost €926 per passenger. Similar commercial flights would cost around €65.

              The Taoiseach’s office wrote to the Justice Minister’s department two days after he returned from Brussels, demanding to know why he did not seek permission to use the jet.

              The minister’s private secretary explained that Mr Shatter booked the jet because of airline strikes and said he planned to “brief the Taoiseach personally” on his return.

              “Any confusion which may have arisen in regard to this matter is regretted,” he added.
              Justice Minister Alan Shatter was officially told that he could not take a government jet to Brussels – before he broke cabinet rules and booked a state-owned private plane without permission.

              Comment


              • I think the use of the Govt jet may be he least of his worries at the moment.

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                • Page 25 on the future of the GIV

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                  • So much for future planning eh Dev! Says it all really. This "Yes Minister" type briefing by senior civil servants paints a very disingenuous picture of Irish military capabilities. One wonders what input the COS had in its compilation? It would be a naive new Minister that would take it at face value.

                    Oh and just for the record - here's a little nugget buried within the briefing:

                    "Employment in the Defence Organisation has decreased from 18,063 in 1981 to 10,025 at the end of March 2014"

                    Progress - I sincerely doubt it.

                    Comment


                    • In section 3.1 it states Air Corps carry out military and non military roles.
                      What are the non military roles?
                      Also ref the EAS it states the AC are going to continue pending the decision of the working group, also one further meeting plannedof this group is planned, wonder will they decide on how the service is provided?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Pure Hover View Post
                        So much for future planning eh Dev! Says it all really. This "Yes Minister" type briefing by senior civil servants paints a very disingenuous picture of Irish military capabilities. One wonders what input the COS had in its compilation? It would be a naive new Minister that would take it at face value.

                        Oh and just for the record - here's a little nugget buried within the briefing:

                        "Employment in the Defence Organisation has decreased from 18,063 in 1981 to 10,025 at the end of March 2014"

                        Progress - I sincerely doubt it.
                        I very much doubt there was a huge DF input, the DOD briefs the Minister on policy.

                        Progress - better trained, better equipped, more capable

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Meatbomb View Post
                          In section 3.1 it states Air Corps carry out military and non military roles.
                          What are the non military roles?
                          Also ref the EAS it states the AC are going to continue pending the decision of the working group, also one further meeting plannedof this group is planned, wonder will they decide on how the service is provided?
                          Non-military roles:
                          ATCP
                          ATCA
                          Maritime Patrol
                          SAR
                          Air Ambulance
                          EAS

                          will I keep going?

                          Comment


                          • Government jet may be grounded by lack of repair budget

                            No provision made to repair or replace Gulfstream IV, briefing documents show


                            The Government jet has amassed 13,110 flying hours in almost two and a half decades in service

                            One of the two Government jets, the 23-year-old Gulfstream IV aircraft, will be grounded if any non-routine maintenance or other major repair arises, briefing documents prepared by the Department of Defence show.

                            The documents, prepared for the Taoiseach, who assumed the role of Minister for Defence following Alan Shatter’s resignation, say there was no provision made in the 2014 budget for the replacement of the jet, which has amassed 13,110 flying hours in almost two and a half decades in service. It will remain in service as long as it requires only routine maintenance. There is no plan to sell the aircraft.

                            Between March 2011 and the end of March 2014 the current Government spent ¤4.4 million on the Ministerial AAir Transport Service. Of the 218 trips made in this time, 110 were taken on the Gulfstream at a cost of €2.6 million.

                            A second jet used for the service, the Learjet, will remain in operation.

                            Elsewhere the documents show two court cases have been taken by former members of the Defence Forces living in Defence-owned “married quarters”, while other cases are being prepared.

                            According to the briefing documents there are about 50 properties occupied by “overholders”, the term it uses to describe former members who have refused to leave married quarters within 21 days of discharge or retirement.

                            The documents also show the department spent almost €4 million on 489 litigation cases in 2013; the figure is estimated to be €5 million this year.Of the €3.8 million spent in 2013, €2.3 million related to awards and settlements including those arisingfrom personal injury claims taken against the Minister for Defence and compensation for damage or injury caused by military vehicles. The claims also encompass payments made in relation to administrative law cases, for example those arising from the discharge of members of the Defence Forces and cases involving decisions takenfollowing individuals failing compulsory random drug tests.

                            The remaining €1.5 related to legal and medical costs.

                            Comment


                            • You can regard CIT as a para-military role in the sense that the participants are armed and operate themselves under military rules and conditions. If we had a gendarmerie like the French, they would do tasks like that, under DoD control.You're also forgetting roles like the provision of protection for Govt buildings like the Dail.

                              regards
                              GttC

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Non-military roles:
                                ATCP
                                ATCA
                                Maritime Patrol
                                SAR
                                Air Ambulance
                                EAS

                                will I keep going?
                                Well if there is more, by all means continue!

                                It's a lot of non military roles for a Military Air wing to carry out.

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