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  • Working for free

    Seeing as ATCA slave labour is now on the cards for the RDF, what is the general opinion on the following scenario.

    Reservist “A” is a bus driver. It’s a Monday morning and he drives a bus from 0900-1700. There is flooding in the town he lives in and his unit has been mobilised to provide ATCA. Reservist “A” decides he can volunteer some time after work to assist his unit within his Reserve capacity. So goes home, puts on his uniform and heads out to join his unit.

    While with his unit providing ATCA, the situation escalates and so does the need for DF resources. By midnight Reservist “A” is tired, knowing full well he needs to go home to get some rest before work tomorrow. He approaches his NCO to request to leave, but the last order from the OC who is away on other matters is for everyone to man their posts until further orders.

    What does Reservist “A” do?

    If he goes home regardless, deciding that his civilian job is more important, is he then not disobeying lawful orders and effectively going AWOL? Under Sec.119 on the Defence Act 1954, Reservist “A” is subject to Military Law and can be arrested and detained for being in breach of it.
    If detained beyond 0900, who is accountable to Reservist “A's” employer if Reservist “A” no longer has the liberty to go to work?

    If Reservist “A” continues in his role providing ATCA, and his duty goes beyond 0900 the following morning. Is Reservist “A” accountable to his employer (by employment contract) or the DF (by military law) first? Who compensates the employer for the loss of resource?

    If Reservist “A” is relieved from his duties at 0800hrs, only to report his civilian work an hour later at 0900hrs, the Reservist having been exempt the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 as a member of the DF is effectively legally obliged to work.
    Is Reservist “A” having not slept in 24hrs now legally considered responsible for driving a bus for the next 8 hours?

    If Reservist “A” were to crash the bus by falling asleep at the wheel, resulting in injury and/or fatality. Who is responsible for the condition of the driver that led to the crash?
    The bus company provided adequate rest off time for Reservist “A”.
    Reservist “A” having volunteered some of his time to ATCA in a Reserve capacity was legally obliged to stay longer than he had intended under military law at the behest of the DF.
    The Defence Forces are exempt the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997, and can’t be responsible for what Reservist “A” does once he’s released from his duties.


    Discuss.....
    Last edited by SwiftandSure; 28 November 2012, 15:11. Reason: Pedantic Prickery

  • #2
    The RDF will NOT be doing ATCP tasks.

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    • #3
      Replace atcp with ATCA, if I read the thread correctly.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
        The RDF will NOT be doing ATCP tasks.
        Especially if it puts our jobs at risk!
        It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

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        • #5
          OP changed to reflect ATCA, the questions still stand.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
            OP changed to reflect ATCA, the questions still stand.
            You should allso change the thread title to - Doing Voluntary work as a Volunteer in a Voluntary organisation.

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            • #7
              S&S has raised some very valid queries regarding the proposals put forward by the VFM. they spouted some possibility of us doing ATCA work for free but theres no hint that any of the items that he has raised were actually considered or was that bit just a wet dream by one of the producers of this POS document?
              "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
              "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                Doing Voluntary work as a Volunteer in a Voluntary organisation.
                ...Where you cannot voluntarily leave unless officially dismissed at the risk of losing one's liberty.

                It's military service under military law with no remuneration for said service, not shaking a bucket for Oxfam

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                • #9
                  how would you lose youe liberty?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kaiser View Post
                    how would you lose youe liberty?
                    Military law. When under same, one is liable to many punishments, including imprisonment, for desertion.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • #11
                      desertion is over a longer period of time.
                      a member of the rdf going to the digger now that would get peoples gums flapping.

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                      • #12
                        if he went down to the "atca" voluntarily and hadnt been detailed to parade i think he might beat the 120 on a technicality

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                        • #13
                          I assume you would still be liable to be charged under military law for walking away contrary to a superiors order to remain where you were?

                          In military terminology, desertion is the abandonment of a "duty" or post without permission and is done with the intention of not returning. "Absence Without Leave" (AWOL) can refer to either desertion or a temporary absence.
                          "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                          "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            that might be disertion on wikipedia
                            but in the idf
                            first your absent and only after a longer period of time(not sure the amount of time) but its a couple of weeks your a deserter

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
                              ...Where you cannot voluntarily leave unless officially dismissed at the risk of losing one's liberty.

                              It's military service under military law with no remuneration for said service, not shaking a bucket for Oxfam
                              The RDF CANNOT be called out for ATCA tasks unless they are called out on permanent service during a state of emergency.
                              So if there is a flood you will have to Volunteer your services just like other similar Voluntary organisations like the Civil Defence and RNLI have always done.
                              Last edited by Rhodes; 28 November 2012, 17:22.

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