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  • #16
    Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    An Air Corps individual known to me was sent to the Leb and took a slot (not his choice but the Army types didn't want an avo in the field) that was coveted by Army types who considered it "their" home away from home so he was given shit by some people.
    I don't agree with giving lads shit, but I was going to say sometimes, but it's AC so I'll say every time, AC lads are hyper sensitive because they are so used to the world of cushiness that is AME.

    But look at it from the Army point of view, day in day out they work through the shite, GOHs, Escorts, xercises, displays, standbys, the hotel etc etc and then the half four lads who wear trousers and shoes get the nice overseas spots.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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    • #17
      It's the DoD that set the terms and conditions of contracts.

      Perhaps if the DoD committed to overseas appointments in the Naval and Air spheres the appropriate personnel would have a chance at showing on a world stage their specific and trained for skill sets.

      Why do Naval and Air Corps Officers have to go through a Infantry centric Command & Staff course learning about Armoured Battlion in Defence Exercises?

      Why can't the three services provide proportionate representation in DFHQ appointments? Why does the Army kick up stink when an Air Corps Officer is put into SPB?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
        Why do Naval and Air Corps Officers have to go through a Infantry centric Command & Staff course learning about Armoured Battlion in Defence Exercises?
        because AC and NS specific ones would have more instructors than students.

        In fairness, the subject matter is relevant if they are in a command/staff job, but conducting a infantry battalion attack is not the same as a AC squadron deploying on ops. The MDMP is likely to be the same (or very similar).

        Why does the Army kick up stink when an Air Corps Officer is put into SPB?
        wasn't the redress by the AC?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
          Is that not depriving the "Army" types of the Staff appointments experience?

          Craggy, at the latter stages of my stints, the big problems we had was officers going out in NCO appointments but not doing them, i.e. Mess Sgt, Welfare NCO etc - is it still the same?

          By the way, it's good to see your still getting the cushy trips.............
          Their is a large number of Lt's on this one however they're not filling NCO appointments that used to be the case. And eh.. my job is far from cushy..

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          • #20
            Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
            ...............

            Why can't the three services provide proportionate representation in DFHQ appointments? Why does the Army kick up stink when an Air Corps Officer is put into SPB?
            By C & P is it an army post?

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            • #21
              whilst DFHQ wants NS and AC going overseas, this is not going down well with the lads themselves so they are leaving in droves, especially techs. DFHQ blindly following a doctrine that pisses people off and then they wonder why they can't keep techs....

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                whilst DFHQ wants NS and AC going overseas, this is not going down well with the lads themselves so they are leaving in droves, especially techs. DFHQ blindly following a doctrine that pisses people off and then they wonder why they can't keep techs....
                Why is a doctrine of expecting people to serving outside the country now and then a problem.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by sofa View Post
                  Why is a doctrine of expecting people to serving outside the country now and then a problem.
                  More to the point, shouldn't the DF be pushing towards a doctrine of having forces deployed outside the country even if it does cause issues.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                    whilst DFHQ wants NS and AC going overseas, this is not going down well with the lads themselves so they are leaving in droves, especially techs. DFHQ blindly following a doctrine that pisses people off and then they wonder why they can't keep techs....
                    Do you speak for everyone in the AC & NS?

                    Going overseas has never been a requirement for promotion for tech vacancies in the AC. The numerous Flt Sgts and other Snr NCOs with only a service medal is testament to that.

                    There is certainly no gun to their heads as you seem to be making out.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                      Captain Obvious to the rescue once again.
                      I was actually looking at the other specs not just the number of seats

                      Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                      whilst DFHQ wants NS and AC going overseas, this is not going down well with the lads themselves so they are leaving in droves, especially techs. DFHQ blindly following a doctrine that pisses people off and then they wonder why they can't keep techs....
                      i'd imagine it is much more to do with pay, promotion, conditions etc

                      Originally posted by sofa View Post
                      Why is a doctrine of expecting people to serving outside the country now and then a problem.
                      i'd imagine he is talking more about the bureaucracy that sees the AC having to fit in with admin (that the army finds it difficult to fit in never mind the AC

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                      • #26
                        AC and NS never went overseas, because the Army didn't want them, didn't like or understand them and was taking them out of their natural environment, especially NS. In my time, only volunteers went to actual gun carrying jobs in UNIFIL and the like, not actual tech jobs, because they encountered hostility from the Army, who saw them as usurping their slots. I've mentioned this before. Going overseas was simply not done. All the Line guys in the Don used to sneer the few Donners who went to the Leb! (yizzer taking our jobs, was one I heard). Later, when contracts and Ts and Cs changed, lads found that a requirement of promotion or signing on for another Three was to have a stint in the UN done. Which was why you had a sudden rush of Donners and NS overseas on UN duty. If you didn't "volunteer", it was held against you. I know people who left rather than go carrying a rifle in the Leb. What's the point of spending four years on the books, taking shit as an aptce, working hard to get a trade, build up skills and knowledge, just to find that the DF wants you to chop six months out of your life??!! Because some guy in DFHQ thinks the Don are getting away with it?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                          AC and NS never went overseas, because the Army didn't want them, didn't like or understand them and was taking them out of their natural environment, especially NS. In my time, only volunteers went to actual gun carrying jobs in UNIFIL and the like, not actual tech jobs, because they encountered hostility from the Army, who saw them as usurping their slots. I've mentioned this before. Going overseas was simply not done. All the Line guys in the Don used to sneer the few Donners who went to the Leb! (yizzer taking our jobs, was one I heard). Later, when contracts and Ts and Cs changed, lads found that a requirement of promotion or signing on for another Three was to have a stint in the UN done. Which was why you had a sudden rush of Donners and NS overseas on UN duty. If you didn't "volunteer", it was held against you. I know people who left rather than go carrying a rifle in the Leb. What's the point of spending four years on the books, taking shit as an aptce, working hard to get a trade, build up skills and knowledge, just to find that the DF wants you to chop six months out of your life??!! Because some guy in DFHQ thinks the Don are getting away with it?
                          Why did they not take an apprenticeship in Aer Lingus. if they did not like the military stuff.? I can see there hesitation to play soldiers. but having a problem being ordered abroad to fix aircraft is another thing.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                            AC and NS never went overseas, because the Army didn't want them, didn't like or understand them and was taking them out of their natural environment, especially NS. In my time, only volunteers went to actual gun carrying jobs in UNIFIL and the like, not actual tech jobs, because they encountered hostility from the Army, who saw them as usurping their slots. I've mentioned this before. Going overseas was simply not done. All the Line guys in the Don used to sneer the few Donners who went to the Leb! (yizzer taking our jobs, was one I heard). Later, when contracts and Ts and Cs changed, lads found that a requirement of promotion or signing on for another Three was to have a stint in the UN done. Which was why you had a sudden rush of Donners and NS overseas on UN duty. If you didn't "volunteer", it was held against you. I know people who left rather than go carrying a rifle in the Leb. What's the point of spending four years on the books, taking shit as an aptce, working hard to get a trade, build up skills and knowledge, just to find that the DF wants you to chop six months out of your life??!! Because some guy in DFHQ thinks the Don are getting away with it?
                            I'm sure the money came in very handy for them

                            I meant in role. The NS has been doing overseas operational deployments (that just leaves the AC)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                              AC and NS never went overseas, because the Army didn't want them, didn't like or understand them and was taking them out of their natural environment, especially NS. In my time, only volunteers went to actual gun carrying jobs in UNIFIL and the like, not actual tech jobs, because they encountered hostility from the Army, who saw them as usurping their slots. I've mentioned this before. Going overseas was simply not done. All the Line guys in the Don used to sneer the few Donners who went to the Leb! (yizzer taking our jobs, was one I heard). Later, when contracts and Ts and Cs changed, lads found that a requirement of promotion or signing on for another Three was to have a stint in the UN done. Which was why you had a sudden rush of Donners and NS overseas on UN duty. If you didn't "volunteer", it was held against you. I know people who left rather than go carrying a rifle in the Leb. What's the point of spending four years on the books, taking shit as an aptce, working hard to get a trade, build up skills and knowledge, just to find that the DF wants you to chop six months out of your life??!! Because some guy in DFHQ thinks the Don are getting away with it?
                              You can't have your cake and eat it.

                              Overseas service is part and parcel of the agreement and it is something that applies to everyone regardless of completing an apprenticeship or not, including pilots, ATC etc.

                              Many of your posts regarding the AC and a general theme is that the AC is reluctant to get their hands dirty and get "on the ground" with the troops. On the other hand you now suggest that techs (specifically) shouldn't be sent overseas by virtue of the fact that they are specialists. I'd rather see a tech serve overseas for 6 months than spend 4 nights a year in a tent in kilworth with a heli as has been suggested elsewhere.

                              Perhaps it is as a result of newer contracts but I'd be hopeful that techs and other specialists don't share the same opinion as you.

                              Overseas service isn't just about "carrying a rifle". There is far more to be gained by way of personal development serving overseas for a short period (6 months is short in the grand scheme of things) rather than shooting the breeze and driving out of "the don" at 1600 every day Monday to Friday.

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                              • #30
                                @sofa, They weren't fixing aircraft abroad, it was normal infantry stuff. Aviation in the Leb is confined to the Italians. One guy even volunteered to help service vehicles and was refused. Some of my contemporaries who went on UN trips asked to be posted to formal tech roles but were refused; I knew at least one NS engine man who was posted to carry a rifle as no-one really knew where to place him so he got rotated around a bit. Effectively, when a guy goes on an overseas rotation, he's out of the food chain for 8 months. An individual I know was told that his chances of promotion or retention were essentially nil unless he did a UN trip and this was not a local edict but passed down from above. He seriously considered leaving because the last thing he needed was a 6-month hole in his life.......let me tell you another one. A friend was earmarked for a Standard Course; met all the criteria, given the start date,etc....last minute, you're not going! why not? haven't fired the SRAAW! the wha?.....frantically arranged trip to the Curragh, collect one plastic pipe with explosive filling and go to the Glen. One loud bang later, man achieves entrance to Std Course. Now, to an AC guy, that kind of stuff is the height of craziness, but it happened....

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