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  • Thing is training is not just getting the initial training, it is recurrency and experience.

    That "training" could actually be support for army training or Exs (eg Landing Point Commanders Cse, lifting troops to the Glen, landing a recce detachment, debusing drills for recruits, simulated CASEVAC during MREs, etc etc).

    Apart from EAS your also going to have a duty 24/7 helicopter in the Don for other taskings (including non-EAS air ambulance). You'll probably also have 1 in maintenance, so that is 50% of the fleet.

    @apc a terrorist incident could require moving the ERU personnel (or ARW platoon) at no notice.

    But as I previously said it is frightening just how few pilots the AC have on the establishment (in pilot slots no doubt they call on people in office jobs as required (who are pilots who have currency). The strength is even worse!

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    • How many times has someone been on ex here and told there would be heli ops only to have the AC have to pull out or send less assets?
      "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
      "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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      • How many times has someone been on ex here and told there would be heli ops only to have the AC have to pull out or send less assets?
        I can only speak as RDF but if its agreed and on the plan they try their absolute hardest to be there in fairness ; even for our planned ex's from the 80s onwards they helped if they could. full-on SAR in the 80s and 90s took up a lot of their time though, those Alouettes saw hard use !
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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        • Up to the retirement of the Alouettes 99% of the time you looked for a Heli the answer was no as they were either off doing SAR or Air ambulance or they were down for maintenance.
          Then we had the brief period before the current head shed of the AC(who to the best of my knowledge is a SAR enthusiast and has no interest in developing the AC heli fleet as a military asset) put the AC back doing civvy jobs.When helis were available for everything.
          Now we are back to square one. A lot of good pilots have left as they were keen on developing military skill sets and that enthusiasm has been p***ed on.
          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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          • Maybe CHC could tender to provide a fleet of helicopters for training, making sure our helicopters are readily available for military operations ( whatever they are) . Only thing I read above is Training.

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            • That's not how tenders work either I'm afraid.

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              • A fair bit of overall DF ouput is civvy orientated. Given that potential civvy uses are highlighted by the Df to clinch/persuade/secure purchase of ships etc then one should not be too surprised when the assets get used in that role.

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                • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                  That's not how tenders work either I'm afraid.
                  Nothing wrong with an unsolicited bid though...

                  British International have been providing a pair S-61's on the Falklands for training, operations and logistic support for years...

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                  • Your average Irish Dept civil service type wouldn't know something worthwhile if it wasn't spelled out to him/her months in advance unfortunately. While there is a very good argument to be made for outsourcing heli training, anything unsolicited would be a waste of time.

                    Those S61's definitely provide good VFM. Seem to remember deck landings on a River class?

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                    • Don't expect anything to change as the DoH/HSE have ruled out acquiring a heli of their own. The Air Corps would like nothing more than to get their aircraft back.

                      There has been a few good things that has come out of operating the EAS. The Air Corps has learned a great deal and is now one of the most experienced forces in the world in carrying out Medevac's. Its far from Mali but the experience has been invaluable which could be transferred to operating a Casevac/Medevac detachment supporting an overseas mission.
                      The current GOC AC has said its a big ambition of his to get Air Corps aircraft overseas mentioning Casevac/Medevac as one of the possible missions, which is ideally suited to Air Corps.

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                      • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                        The Air Corps has learned a great deal and is now one of the most experienced forces in the world in carrying out Medevac's.
                        While it's good to hear a new skillset has been developed, to say that the IAC is one of the most experienced forces in the carrying out medevacs is just something I'm not going to swallow.

                        It's a long way from a road side in Leitrim to Helmand Province. Under fire. In brown out conditions.

                        Nope, apples and oranges.

                        The ability to fly medevacs in an active combat zone is only achieved by first developing an ability to operate in an active combat zone. A long way to go on that front, equipment wise at the very least.

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                        • When you reflect further it can be recalled that ARW precision rifles (very milty items) got pressed into action last year to dispatch mad bulls/cows .

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                          • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                            While it's good to hear a new skillset has been developed, to say that the IAC is one of the most experienced forces in the carrying out medevacs is just something I'm not going to swallow.

                            It's a long way from a road side in Leitrim to Helmand Province. Under fire. In brown out conditions.

                            Nope, apples and oranges.

                            The ability to fly medevacs in an active combat zone is only achieved by first developing an ability to operate in an active combat zone. A long way to go on that front, equipment wise at the very least.
                            We are not taking CSAR here, the Medevac or Tacevac as its often called now, in an operational area such as Lebanon, Kosovo and Mali operate in a similar fashion to the EAS service. There was an Irish based commercial company operating Aero Medevacs in Kosovo and Mali. The Air Corps experience can be transferred to operating in an overseas mission.

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                            • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                              We are not taking CSAR here, the Medevac or Tacevac as its often called now, in an operational area such as Lebanon, Kosovo and Mali operate in a similar fashion to the EAS service. There was an Irish based commercial company operating Aero Medevacs in Kosovo and Mali. The Air Corps experience can be transferred to operating in an overseas mission.
                              Sorry, this whole line of thought is complete bollocks.

                              The skill and experience set that the AC has developed while doing the AES task broadly equate to the pre-lunch on the first day syllabus of a 6 month 'operating a helicopter in a shitty place and flying your people in and out of a very shitty place' course.

                              The AC would have learnt more about deployment and militarily applicable flying in a single two week trip to West Freugh or Carlisle Airport on a Joint Warrior exercise (to which they are invited every six months...) than it has learnt in the whole time it's been doing EAS.

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                              • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                                Sorry, this whole line of thought is complete bollocks.

                                The skill and experience set that the AC has developed while doing the AES task broadly equate to the pre-lunch on the first day syllabus of a 6 month 'operating a helicopter in a shitty place and flying your people in and out of a very shitty place' course.

                                The AC would have learnt more about deployment and militarily applicable flying in a single two week trip to West Freugh or Carlisle Airport on a Joint Warrior exercise (to which they are invited every six months...) than it has learnt in the whole time it's been doing EAS.
                                - aircrew operating helos in confined spaces
                                - AC EMTs have had experience with casualties
                                - AC EMTs have had experience operating with APs
                                - a long term offsite deployment (or be it in a manned barracks not too far away)

                                Let's not forget that a fair percentage of current AC pilots will have been commissioned since the AC lost SAR

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