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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    I wouldn't rely on the papers to be 100% accurate.

    Who is to say that written statements weren't given
    Who's to say they were? The family seem to be dis satisfied, I am sure they know more than the papers.

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    • Exactly, I assume the report is (at least) restricted which is why it is not available to the public.

      Is it even made available to the families?

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      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Exactly, I assume the report is (at least) restricted which is why it is not available to the public.
        That usually means someone has something to hide. This has nothing to to do with national security or "opsec" which is used as a get out of jail type card. When these things are kept from the public, which is wrong as they foot the bill, people smell a rat.

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        • In fairness the AC are neither unique nor innovative regarding restrictions on reports.Do the rounds of State Orgs,none make all internal reports fully public without any redaction.

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          • Originally posted by danno View Post
            In fairness the AC are neither unique nor innovative regarding restrictions on reports.Do the rounds of State Orgs,none make all internal reports fully public without any redaction.
            Example???
            The Gardai even have their own Ombudsman's office.

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            • The garda ombudsman is an independant body like the AAIU.

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              • Originally posted by danno View Post
                The garda ombudsman is an independant body like the AAIU.
                You cannot compare the powers of the AAIU to those of the Garda ombudsman. If the AAIU had similar powers this would not be happening.
                Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                • Originally posted by danno View Post
                  In fairness the AC are neither unique nor innovative regarding restrictions on reports.Do the rounds of State Orgs,none make all internal reports fully public without any redaction.
                  The Tusker rock crash off Wexford in 1968. When the investigators went out to Air Lingus to take possession of the maintenance logs
                  of the Aircraft, They had mysteriously disappeared never to turn up again. So we just blamed the Brits.

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                  • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                    You cannot compare the powers of the AAIU to those of the Garda ombudsman. If the AAIU had similar powers this would not be happening.
                    I am not comparing powers of the aaiu wrt Garda Ombudsman,just highlighting that these are independant bodies whose reports are not internal reports such as a court of inquiry which under A5 is confidential.

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                    • Originally posted by danno View Post
                      I am not comparing powers of the aaiu wrt Garda Ombudsman,just highlighting that these are independant bodies whose reports are not internal reports such as a court of inquiry which under A5 is confidential.
                      What difference does their supposed independence make? One is a dickless report generating organisation the other can have people jailed. What's needed is somewhere half between the HSA & the GSOC. What does the DF gain by not publishing the results of this "court of inquiry"? What does the taxpayer gain by the DF being unaccountable wrt potentially avoidable ("non-operational") fatal accidents?
                      Last edited by The real Jack; 18 March 2013, 01:44.
                      Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by danno View Post
                        I am not comparing powers of the aaiu wrt Garda Ombudsman,just highlighting that these are independant bodies whose reports are not internal reports such as a court of inquiry which under A5 is confidential.
                        What purpose does it serve to keep the findings confidential? National security? Or more like a desire to keep it all hush hush and not name and shame a few senior AC officers?
                        Not that it matters anyway as it seems some if the key players in the operation at that time were not called in and questioned.
                        Wa it true that written statements were Also given by some? And that questions were put to them in writing in advance?
                        Sounds like they really wanted to get to the bottom of the systemic failure alright!

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                        • DCOS OPs was GOC AC at the time?
                          Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                          • Personaly I think that this reflects badly, not only on the Air Corps but on the Defence Forces in general. The IAC is a CORPS of the Irish Defence Forces not a standalone organisation.

                            Who provided aviation expertise to the CoI? The organisation under scrutiny???? Should this be a non aligned board, ie Army and Navy, assisted by a non IAC aviation expert (selected by the Army or Navy!!). In my opinion this crap again and again and again does nothing but expose IAC crews not only to accidents but to ultimate blame from their superiors when shit goes wrong. Don't they see that!! They will always be the scape goat!!!!

                            At the end of the day the IACs failing is the entire DFs failing. CoS, take control for God sake, there your personnel!

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                            • It's also a government failing. Just as the IAC is an arm of the DF, the DF is an arm of the State. It should not be a closed shop. When an organisation as small as the IAC self scrutinises and disciplines there's bound to be a certain amount of covering each others arses. Failure to impose control is a failure at departmental level.

                              All the while Shatter is off in Israel passing off personal political views as state policy.

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                              • Just so you know all CoIs are restricted (at least)!

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