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  • #76
    all open for discussion i think!! RAF still do SAR for example!

    HEMS more complex hence my opinion on regulation.

    Point taken on the MATS role but i wouldnt call the current HSE paramedics crew!!

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    • #77
      I think the Dauphin crash was the first accident that the AAIU were involved in (invited by Min DoD) but as far is I know it was many years later before the AAIU were given the remit to actually investigate AC accidents. For example, I dont think they investigated the Cessna crash. At least if they did I dont remember seeing a report.

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      • #78
        [QUOTE=Tadpole;360896]Dan,
        Jetjock is 100% correct. While HEMS is regulated for civilian operations the military are not and this will not change with EASA. EASA cannot and will not regulate the following: Military, Coastguard, Police, SAR or Fire fighting operations.

        EASA WILL regulate CHC and the civilian Fire Fighting AOC's!!!!

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        • #79
          all open for discussion i think!! RAF still do SAR for example!
          Not for too much longer

          HEMS more complex hence my opinion on regulation.
          As already stated it depends on the operator (in this case military) not the operation.

          but i wouldnt call the current HSE paramedics crew!!
          Dont know what you are talking about. There currently are NO HSE Paramedics acting as crew however when the AC operation starts the HSE Paramedics will be in the back and part of the operation permanently. If you want to debate who should or shouldn't be referred to as crew check out JAR OPS 3 Subpart O. I think you will find you are, in civilian terms at least, wrong.

          EASA WILL regulate CHC and the civilian Fire Fighting AOC's!!!!
          EASA will regulate CHC but not their SAR operation, this will remain the remit of the National Aviation Authority or are they going to pull a European SAR operators manual out of their A**e by April?

          As for Fire fighting et al: http://www.easa.eu.int/frequently-as...#no-competency
          And I quote "Article 1(2) of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 (the Basic Regulation), as amended by Regulation (EC) No 1108/2009 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 21 October 2009, excludes from the Agency’s scope aircraft involved in the execution of military, customs, police, search and rescue, fire fighting, coastguard or similar activities or services."

          Next!

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          • #80
            AAIU applicable to State aircraft since mid 1997.

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            • #81
              Cool, didnt know that. Thanks.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by danno View Post
                c.1998
                Not even then. Cessna 243 crashed in 2004 and no public report exists.

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                • #83
                  at least 3 AAIU probes into AC units in 1999 incl Tramore.
                  Last time the Cessna was posted about a lockdown was imposed.

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                  • #84
                    The AC definitely didn't have the expertise to deal with Tramore on their own. There was also a probe into an incident with the GASU Squirrel but maybe that wasnt 1999.

                    Selective publishing of reports helps no one.RIP to young Lt Heery, but no civilian pilot was ever afforded a behind closed doors investigation. In fact it's fairly unique in wordwide military aviation too. Helps no one.

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                    • #85
                      There was an obvious conflict with the concept of the AC investigating AC prangs.
                      The GASU was one of the matters in 1999,it got disorientated and a faulty compass was adverted to.
                      The CG SARs have also got paraded before the AAIU on a few events.

                      You will have to draw your own conclusions re the Cessna and leave it at that and avoid speculation.

                      Have you any info on the heli incident in Kerry 2 years ago re the door falling off (was it for real),the door falling off the Merlin in Gly was reportedon.

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                      • #86
                        As already stated it depends on the operator (in this case military) not the operation.
                        Military???Under the current Irish Aviation Authority regulations, air ambulance and HEMS is considered as commercial air transport and as such requires an operator carrying out such operations to hold an Air Operators Certificate and transport licence. Under Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 which is due to come into effect in april 2012, air ambulance and HEMS is classed as a commercial operation and requires an operator to hold an AOC and transport licence.


                        Dont know what you are talking about. There currently are NO HSE Paramedics acting as crew however when the AC operation starts the HSE Paramedics will be in the back and part of the operation permanently. If you want to debate who should or shouldn't be referred to as crew check out JAR OPS 3 Subpart O. I think you will find you are, in civilian terms at least, wrong.
                        IAC current Air Ambulance flights carry patient = civilian and most cases HSE team = civilians!!!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Dan,
                          Your clutching at straws:
                          Operators Certificate and transport licence. Under Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 which is due to come into effect in april 2012, air ambulance and HEMS is classed as a commercial operation and requires an operator to hold an AOC and transport licence
                          Correct but as already stated the military do not require an AOC and can do whatever their military authorities and Government handlers allow them to do. That means if they want to do HEMS they can do it. Once more, in this case it is about the operator, not the operation.

                          IAC current Air Ambulance flights carry patient = civilian and most cases HSE team = civilians!!
                          Hows about reading my post properly:
                          HSE Paramedics will be in the back and part of the operation permanently
                          This will be the first civil staff that are permanently part of the AC operation. The other passengers flew one leg and got off.
                          Besides, by your rational, with the AC already carrying civil passengers they need to have an AOC, do they?? Exactly, they don't need one, QED.

                          PS, what happened to your ascertain that fire fighting would also be regulated by EASA? I like how you dropped that when actual regs are quoted to you.

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                          • #88
                            Why not get the medical corps to finally get someone trained to Paramedic Instructor level and start instructing medics to paramedic level instead of getting the likes of dublin fire brigade instructors to come out and teach them? Then once this is done replace the permie civvie staff with these guys. .. .. damn it sorry, i forgot, im possibly talking sense here.
                            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                            • #89
                              Morpheus,
                              You certainly are verging on making sense! I think the primary issues with this are the cost of training instructors and keeping them 'current'. I also wouldn't be surprised if there is a bit of protectionism built into the PHECC system to number the amount of training establishments in the country.

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                              • #90
                                I'm friends with one of the most highly trained paramedic instructors in Ireland - this has lead him to cross paths with the DF once or twice in a related manner. I can assure you that we've spoken about this numerous times and he has seen nor heard no good reason why the DF don't have paramedic instructors. Its closer to either cost reasons or that the DF doesn't officially recognise civvie qualifications, yet hires civvies to train its own as it has no instructors. This has nothing to do with protectionism or PHECC, its more to do with the institution itself.
                                "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                                "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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