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yellowjacket
2nd June 2003, 15:03
Someone mentioned air ambulances on another thread.
If (when?) the Dauphins are replaced, would it make sense to convert them to air ambulances?
The type has been used succesfully in the role in many locations, notably G-HEMS in London.
Do the aircraft have enough life left in them for the job?

http://www.hems-london.org.uk/Gallery/snapshots/images/action02.jpg


http://www.smd.qmul.ac.uk/omfs/hems.jpg

Goldie fish
2nd June 2003, 15:19
I believe the avionics need to be upgraded,other than that,I dont believe helis suffer from airframe time as much as fixed wing.
The Most popular choice for air ambulance today is actualy the EC 135,one of which was in use in ireland for a while,demonstrating its potential. However this would be a matter for the Health boards,who are currently in a shite state already.

In the meantime,the Allouette 3 frequently lands at CUH with patients for their excellent head injury specialists.it seems they take out one of the seats in front and everything slots in well.

Saw a documentary about HEMS on tv before,they do a great job to be sure,but require sponsorship to keep them in the air. Who would be willing to do it here?

yellowjacket
2nd June 2003, 15:28
The Yorkshire Air Ambulance http://www.wymas.co.uk/airambulance/index.htm relies largely on public donations along with an AA sponsorship deal.

Annual running costs work at around Stg£1m, which is hardly a huge amount compare to some other government expenditure I could think of, and there is no doubt this would save lives (always good for votes :D).

Silver
2nd June 2003, 16:53
The Garda helis should have been equipped for dual Garda/Air Ambulance duties, as is the case in many UK counties.
The EC-135 being the most suitable of the two - Instead it is overloaded with "toys for the boys".

I too wonder would the Dauphins "have enough life in them" for the role ?

Perhaps some of the multinationals here would consider a sponsorship deal ?
Would be great PR for them to have their name on the side of a heli or two !

Silver.

yellowjacket
2nd June 2003, 16:59
The problem with dual police-ems helicopter is the roles often conflict, e.g. at a major incident does the helicopter assist the police with command and control, or start transporting casualties? Both of these are vital roles.

Plus the Garda helicopter seems to be needed most over urban areas, while the biggest need for a HEMS service is in rural areas, where transport times for casualties by ground are unacceptably long.

Silver
2nd June 2003, 20:08
I agree that a dedicated service would be the ideal solution.
However, dual role helis seem to work fine with many UK Police Constabularies.

strummer
2nd June 2003, 21:55
Hey Silver, Yellow,
Gotta link for any dual service police/ems air ambulance?
I'm too lazy to google it myself!!!!!!!

yellowjacket
2nd June 2003, 22:00
http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/air_support/index.htm

strummer
2nd June 2003, 22:13
Thanks lad, interesting stuff.

Lurk
2nd June 2003, 23:03
The Garda helis should have been equipped for dual Garda/Air Ambulance duties, as is the case in many UK counties.
The EC-135 being the most suitable of the two - Instead it is overloaded with "toys for the boys".

Silver, your quote as above is interesting. perhaps you can enlighten the board as to the "toys" on board.

Four years ago, the Kent Air Ambulance Trust in their AS355N visited the west of Ireland on behalf of promotional parties, to display their aircraft. (It since crashed with loss of life). At the meeting were representatives of the Air Corps who took a stand off position in the matter of Medevac.

You see, the Air Corps have only ever provided a transit service for patients, from Hospital to Hospital, despite having the aircraft to provide medevac from on scene incidents.

As for your comment that the EC 135 being the most suitable of the "Two", the AS 355 series of helicopters are the mnost popular in the World for Medevac / Casevac use in the civil community.

Bear also in mind, that British Units are so geographically small, that it is often very convenient for them to make the hop with the patient to the nearest hospital. If the Guards were to provide this service, think of the logistics, ie, fuel, fuel availability, endurance, weather, etc.

Regards,

Lurk.

strummer
2nd June 2003, 23:27
I think this would be an ideal role for the Aer Corps. Of course funding would have to be found to purchase/lease the helicopters. The skill and expertise is already present in the PDF, pilots, medics etc. It would be a good place for other emergency service personnel to hone their skills too, eg fire brigades, ambulance services. Would this be a role the Aer Corps would be willing to take on? Surely, anything that gets them real flying hours would be welcome.

As a related sidebar, I work with an ex-US Army flight medic. He was stationed in San Antonio in the 70's when the US Army, in co-operation with local authorities initated one of the first "civilian" Airvac services. They utilized lessons and techniques learned in Vietnam. In Texas, distances between hospitals are huge, hence the program was started.

Come-quickly
3rd June 2003, 12:38
I think air ambualnce should be left to a civilian agency, it's about time this state modernised its aviation services, a private or semi-state HEMS working directly for the RHA's makes far more practical and long term economic sense than overburdening the AC or GASU fleets.

strummer
3rd June 2003, 15:28
I can see that in an ideal world CQ, but it would require that the health boards put in place a whole support structure for theit new "air wing." The PDF already has a whole support structure in place. Granted it may have to be expanded to accomadate the new aircraft that would be needed. But I was thinking of cost savings here.

Plus, wouldn't it offer some some real world operations for the Aer Corps. They would right up to speed on the Casevac skills, everyday. And I'm sure their pilots would be glad of the hours.

Later.

Come-quickly
3rd June 2003, 17:19
True they aren't exactly flying Pilots to death at the moment but for the air corps to run the service won't really do much for their military aspirations in the long run.
If a private contractor operated I'd guestimate six light twins from three regional airports I'd say that would be more than adequate.

yellowjacket
3rd June 2003, 18:00
Originally posted by Lurk
As for your comment that the EC 135 being the most suitable of the "Two", the AS 355 series of helicopters are the most popular in the World for Medevac / Casevac use in the civil community.

Comparing the two by numbers in service isn't fair as the AS355 has been around a lot longer.
Increasingly larger helicopters are being chosen so as to offer more scope treating the casualty in flight. The AS355/Bo105 size helicopters offer very little room for casualty treatment.

Lurk
3rd June 2003, 18:51
Hi all.

I read some excellent comments here, its a pity the authorities with the ability to initiate this service dont do something about it. The Air Corps have one inherent problem with a dedicated service, ie, the Army have first call, as they hold the purse strings. I am sure that with planning and funding, that the Air Corps have a lot to offer. In these modern times, they could even charge the HB's for the service.

Examine the terminology, and then see what the service means. Its my view that,

Air Ambulance is usually point to point, and pre planned.

Medevac is where the patient is moved to a facility from the scene of the incident to a place of treatment, and a medic / doctor is on board.

Casevac is the removal from scene to a place of treatment by a usually basically qualified multi purpose crew. Casevac is not the primary role.

From the above, it can be established what heli is req for each task. So a Dauphan or similar is used for ambulance and sometimes medevac, the smaller aircraft in multi role fits into casevac.

Any opinions?

yellowjacket
3rd June 2003, 19:42
The definitions depend on who you're talking to. But definitions are normally:

Casualty Evacuation (casevac) from scene to A&E
Medical Evactation (medevac) transfer between hospitals.

A HEMS (Helicopter Emergency Medical Service) in Ireland would be needed for both.

Crew qualifications varies from place to place.
2 paramedics (most of UK)
Flight nurse & paramedic (common in US)
Doctor & paramedic (London HEMS)
Obviously the more qualified crews bring cost implications, but can offer more treatment on-scene and en-route.

An interesting suggestion made by lobby groups for an Irish HEMS system involved an all Island service. This would have implications for Air Corps involvement.

Lurk
4th June 2003, 21:57
Yellojacket, the all Ireland service is an excellent idea, but I hope the Air Corps is bigger than the Health Boards in this matter. For example, people in North Monaghan have to travel a great distance for proper facilities or specialist treatment tas do people in Donegal. Why not go to Derry or Armagh? Its a pity we put imaginary barriers in place where lives are concerned. We already send people to UK Hospitals for treatment.

I appreciate your comments about the designations of what is Casevac, Medevac, etc, there are many interpretations.

The UK Police who do Casevac are usually not specifically trained for the task. Other units carry one joint team of police observer, paramedic, and pilot. The air ambulance services carry either two paramedics, and sometimes a doctor from a hospital A&E.

Lurk

strummer
5th June 2003, 21:26
After considering this issue for awhile, I think I now agree with CQ (it must be the end of the world or something, eh CQ?!!!!!!!). I think a private contractor would be the way to go. Hand over all flight ops. and maintenance to the contractor, medical control could be held by the Health Board, medical staff could be Health board or contractor. I think this would be the most cost-effective way of implementing such a service.

Not to drif too far off topic, but why was the Air Corps given the flight and maint responsibilities for the GASU? Why not a contractor? Was it a security issue? A financial one? A feel good reason for the AC?

Just wondering.

Later.

FMolloy
5th June 2003, 21:37
The Gardai wanted (and probably still want) an English company, staffed by ex-military pilots, to fly the aircraft. The problem is that legislation prohibits government aircraft to be flown by civilians.

strummer
5th June 2003, 21:43
But what about that Air/Sea Maritime Rescue helicopter, Sikorsky, I think, that used to/ maybe still does, fly out of Shannon. Big deal made out of its female pilot etc. She was a civilian. Or was the aircraft owned and operated by the contractor, hence it wasn't a govt. aircraft?

FMolloy
5th June 2003, 21:46
As far as I know all the coast guard helicopters belong to the company that runs the service (CHC?).

Silver
10th June 2003, 19:49
Gentlemen please !

I am the last person who would knock the Air Corps (or GASU) !!!
(Have you noticed my new signature :cool: ).

I didn't realise a "passing comment" would have created so much fuss :eek:

When I made the comment (re "toys"), it was to show how strongly I believe in the need for an Air Ambulance over the likes of "side-looking infra-red equipment" in our GASU helis.

Silver.


:flagwave:

pym
24th April 2005, 12:32
*bump*

I think this warrants further discussion. With the new helicopters being delivered soon-ish, I do not see why at least 2 A3's could be assigned to full time air ambulance operations, at least as an interim solution.

mugs
24th April 2005, 12:52
Plus the Garda helicopter seems to be needed most over urban areas, while the biggest need for a HEMS service is in rural areas, where transport times for casualties by ground are unacceptably long.
Just to point out that in a recent documentary series on BBC1 called ''trauma'' they followed the HEMS team in London and they now use an EC135 and have landed it in the middle of a street with 3 storey buildings on both sides so I don't thing landing in a grassy area in a housing estate would be a problem.

yellowjacket
24th April 2005, 13:01
I do not see why at least 2 A3's could be assigned to full time air ambulance operations, at least as an interim solution.

How about the fact that for pretty much the first time ever, the A/C currently has helis available for military operations and training. Sending the AIIIs off to do air ambulance would put a sudden stop to that.

A privately operated state funded air ambulance service is currently under development. This is the way it should be.

The AB139s will have a secondary air ambulance role, and understandings are being drawn up between the depts of health and defence to formailse this.

Boomer
24th April 2005, 13:11
A privately operated state funded air ambulance service is currently under development. This is the way it should be.




Eh?

First Ive heard of this, got any more details?

JAG
24th April 2005, 13:56
Shouldn't the DF have a dedicated 24 hour emergency med-evac heli anyway? It would make a hell of a difference in the event of, for example, a mishap with some artillery. Time from Cemetary Hill to the nearest advanced care by road as compared to by air, anyone?

Dual pupose is bullshit. You try to do two things, you'll end up doing neither of them properly.

Goldie fish
24th April 2005, 14:57
Medevac and air ambulance are not the same thing.

pym
24th April 2005, 15:29
How about the fact that for pretty much the first time ever, the A/C currently has helis available for military operations and training. Sending the AIIIs off to do air ambulance would put a sudden stop to that.

A privately operated state funded air ambulance service is currently under development. This is the way it should be.


I obviously wasnt aware of the latter point, but I bumped this topic to get the reasons for and against using a3's in this role, so thanks for the show stopping point :)

I even used the search function, now where's my gold star?

DeV
24th April 2005, 15:37
Aloutte III's don't have 24 hour / all weather capability, so would be of limited use

Vmax
27th April 2005, 10:32
Shouldn't the DF have a dedicated 24 hour emergency med-evac heli anyway? It would make a hell of a difference in the event of, for example, a mishap with some artillery. Time from Cemetary Hill to the nearest advanced care by road as compared to by air, anyone?

Dual pupose is bullshit. You try to do two things, you'll end up doing neither of them properly.



the coast guard are usually on standby for night time military ops.eg Glen of imaal and have been used on a couple of occasions over this past year or two to extract casualities.Word has it a private operator will be offering an air ambulance service based out of Galway maybe in partnership with private medical insurance.This will not be a HEMS service.A plan was put forward for an all island air ambulance service using between four and six airframes.The government here have put this on hold?The health services in northern ireland are going ahead and buying one aircraft initially. Presently the coast guard are providing a 24 hour air ambulance service.Tha A3's are a good aircraft and have provided sterling service to the aer corp but in this day and age single engine air ambulance is not an option.

yellowjacket
27th April 2005, 10:53
http://www.dohc.ie/press/releases/2004/20040430.html

The Dept of Health study on provision of HEMS.

Bottom line, HEMS as known in UK for example isn't on the agenda for the moment. A helicopter based inter-hospital transfer service is recommended and the Dept are moving that along.

Boomer
27th April 2005, 10:57
http://www.dohc.ie/press/releases/2004/20040430.html

The Dept of Health study on provision of HEMS.

Bottom line, HEMS as known in UK for example isn't on the agenda for the moment. A helicopter based inter-hospital transfer service is recommended and the Dept are moving that along.

hehe

And here was me thinking you had heard something more recent than that :)

yellowjacket
27th April 2005, 11:17
The last issue of Emergency Ireland, received it last week, has an update on this and states the DOH are in negotiations re setting up the transfer service.

Vmax
27th April 2005, 14:31
According to Lorna Siggins of the irish times the DOH are apparently in the final stages of drawing up a service agreement with the DOM, DOD for a dedicated air ambulance service.what ever this means.More bullsh*t by the sounds of things. we will have to watch this space.

yellowjacket
27th April 2005, 14:48
Reading some of the Minister for Health's speeches in the Dail, it seems the Dept of Health feel they will have a fiar chunk of the use of the new helis:


Ambulance Service.

60. Dr. Cowley asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children the progress she has made in the establishment of an all-Ireland helicopter emergency medical service as recommended by the HEMS feasibility study consultants report which was published on 30 April 2004; if she has completed discussions with other Ministers on the matter; if there has been any recent meeting held in relation to establishing this service; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [9770/05]

Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): The report of a consultancy study jointly commissioned by my Department and the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, Belfast, DHSSPS, on the costs and benefits associated with the introduction of a dedicated helicopter emergency medical service, HEMS, for the island of Ireland was published last year and is available on my Department’s website.

The study concluded that the introduction of a dedicated inter-hospital transfer service would be appropriate in an all-island context. Inter-hospital air ambulance services are currently provided by the Air Corps and the Irish Coast Guard, subject to the nature of the mission, available aircraft and other operational commitments.

My Department is continuing to liaise with the Department of Defence on the preparation of a service level agreement which will formalise arrangements for the future provision of an air ambulance service by the Air Corps. It is expected that this work will be completed shortly. The Deputy will be aware that a significant helicopter fleet replacement programme has recently been approved and is being put in place for the Air Corps. Each of the new helicopters will have a specific air ambulance capability and the new fleet will have a far greater flying capacity than is available currently. In addition, my Department has reached agreement with the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources that the Irish Coast Guard will continue to provide air ambulance services on the same basis as heretofore.

yellowjacket
27th April 2005, 21:05
Article in question:


Emergency landing for private helicopter service

Plans are being developed within the private sector for the introduction of a dedicated helicopter emergency medical service (HEMS), according to the Department of Health. The service would operate primarily on an inter-hospital transfer role, “with a view to becoming operational at an early date”.
In addition to this, a service level agreement is being finalised between the Dept of Health and the Department of Defence on the provision of an air ambulance service by the Air Corps. A helicopter fleet replacement programme which will have “far greater flying capacity than is available” has also recently been approved and is being put in place for the Air Corps.
The Irish Coast Guard will continue to provide air ambulance services on the same basis as before. Inter-hospital air ambulance services are currently provided by the Air Corps and the Irish Coast Guard.
According to a study commissioned by the Department of Health and the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, Northern Ireland, the introduction of a dedicated inter-hospital transfer would be appropriate in an all-island context. The study estimated the cost of the service at €12 million capital and €4 million revenue for a single helicopter. Between 400 and 600 missions are performed annually and, “most patient transfers are airport to airport with onward transfer by land ambulance,” according to the department. (Source: Irish Medical News)

Silver
29th April 2005, 18:45
So we still won't have a full HEMS service ???

When most people hear "Air Ambulance" (myself included!) they think of a service that can land anywhere (i.e. farm accident, car accident scene, etc etc.) and not simply a service that transfers people from one hospital to another.

Turkey
29th April 2005, 22:10
Apart from the fact that the AB139 is hopfully going to be busy engaged in troop training, it may not be suitable for Air Ambulance work.
This is, in no way the fault of the IAC,or anyone else involved in approving the helicopter.
Many of the hospitals which equipped themselves with helipads, had them constructed to take A111's. But they have since abandoned any hope of useing them. I have been told that out of all the Dublin district hospital pads, only one remains in existence, and that is out of use due to building work nearby.
To even provide air transfer is going to require a co-ordinated efford from several different sources which should be sorted on the way to proper HEMS, and it might be better if that was provided by an agency , apart from DoD and the Irish Air Corps.
My vote is for the Fire Brigade to do it, and before anyone says that this is a new departure for them and a huge step foward, it is, but it is probally not as big a step as abandoning the horse and adopting the internal combustion engin.

Goldie fish
29th April 2005, 22:50
Cork University Hospital lost its helipad during the recent construction of a new wing. Patient transfers are now done to cork airport,and then escorted by garda outriders ,in ambulance by road,though one of the busiest junctions in Ireland.

Boomer
30th April 2005, 11:01
Cork University Hospital lost its helipad during the recent construction of a new wing. Patient transfers are now done to cork airport,and then escorted by garda outriders ,in ambulance by road,though one of the busiest junctions in Ireland.

For those of you that have not read the report it states that for the HEMS system to be initiated it requires an investment of €14million in new helipads and control systems. A new rooftop pad for Beaumont and ground pads for most of the remaining major hospitals in Ireland (North and South).

The full service of 4 helicopters would cost €11million a year for a retrieval and for an emergency service.

Shane

Gasplug
30th April 2005, 11:04
So we will probably never see it, but at least the ministers got their lear jet for 7.5million!

Vmax
30th April 2005, 12:57
The Mater hospital will be fitting a roof top heli pad capable of taking up to a A-139.All the research has been completed for this project, completion date for the pad is anyones guess. The last heli pad in service around the Dublin area is Tallaght.It is now as good as condemed, there is something like 16 tower cranes in the vicinity.As boomer has printed heli pads and infastructure will have to be sorted before an efficent dedicated service can be provided.The Irish times had an article last week about the DOH close to agreement with the DOM, DOD for a dedicated air ambulance service, I don't see how this can be done without buying/leasing new aircraft. If the aer corp are going to supply dedicated air ambulance aircraft, then the military end of things will suffer.As for the coast guard you are either dedicated SAR with air ambulance as a secondary role, or dedicated air ambulance, you cant be both.

DeV
30th April 2005, 13:03
The light utility helicopter had be offered with a modular air ambulance kit.

Boomer
30th April 2005, 13:09
The light utility helicopter had be offered with a modular air ambulance kit.

The problem with that sort of system is that it takes time to insert the kit into the helicopter which results in callout times in the range of a few hours notice thereby negating the effects of an oncall helicopter. The rational behind a 24hour on call retrival system and a daylight hours Primary Response system is that they are available to respond within a short space of time (Primary Response system is generally intended to respond within 2 - 3mins for take off and to be on scene within 30 minutes).

futurepilot
30th April 2005, 13:32
So we will probably never see it, but at least the ministers got their lear jet for 30million!
7.5 million

DeV
30th April 2005, 14:14
Mayo General Hospital's redevelopment included a "new helicopter landing facility" in 2002.

It would take 3 years to get a inter-hospital transfer service (what is proposed) up & running.
Capital expenditure would be e12 million
Running costs for 1 helicopter would be e4 million (and e3 million for each additional helicopter)
Its not a lot of money but it would take a lot of ambulances off the road.

The problems with primary response air ambulances (go directly to the scene) is that they have to have somewhere to land at the incident and they have to be called in by someone who is trained (ie the EMT on the scene - decides they need a MD & helicopter) this further increases the time it takes for the patient to move towards the hospital.

To be honest, I don't know if I would be for or against a HEMS in Ireland, there are advantages & disadvantages. But the important thing is:

2/3 of people who die due to major trauma have unsurvivable injuries. Of the remainder, 2/3 will survive if they get well trained assistance within 60 minutes.

The feasability report - http://www.dohc.ie/publications/hems.html

Boomer
30th April 2005, 14:24
It would take 3 years to get a inter-hospital transfer service (what is proposed) up & running.
Capital expenditure would be e12 million
Running costs for 1 helicopter would be e4 million (and e3 million for each additional helicopter)
Its not a lot of money but it would take a lot of ambulances off the road.


Dev_

If you had read the FULL report you would have noticed that the system is to be in ADDITION to existing expenditure and improvements in the ground based Ambulance Service and NOT in REPLACEMENT of it. There would probably be riots amongst the Paramedics (As Irish Trained EMTs are now know as) if there was attempts to reduce the number of ambulances on the roads as they are often overstretched in some places as it is.

DeV
30th April 2005, 14:45
I do realise that but the Irish government has been known not to do exactly what reports say & try to cut corners.

Silver
30th April 2005, 17:23
An independent HEMS service (to cover the North and Republic) has been mooted and, I believe, is the way to go.

The Air Corps could/will provide a back-up service, as they will in the SAR role to the ICG.

As for landing in confined spaces -
I saw a programme on a German tv channel recently which showed a HEMS heli (AB212 ?) landing in a city street ........ at a five crossroads junction !

Silver
30th April 2005, 17:31
EC-135 Air Ambulance I photographed in Arthurs Pass National Park, Canterbury, New Zealand last October ............

Goldie fish
30th April 2005, 19:05
Thats not a 135. EC135's have a fenestron ducted fan tail rotor. Thats an EC145/BK117.

Vmax
30th April 2005, 19:23
Silver,
I agree with your 1st point regarding HEMS/air ambulance.

i dont believe the aer corp can carry out their military duties as well as being a back up service for SAR and air ambulance with only 4 A-139's. If the ARW expect 24 hr availibility of a heli that will probably tie up 2 airframes.As it stands now the aer corp can not provide SAR backup, there has been no SAR training in the corp since the cessation of operations at Sligo, (dare i say it, thats a different story/topic).
crews have moved onto different jobs.

not wishing to be pedantic but that nice photograph you have taken, the aircraft is actually a BK-117.

Silver
1st May 2005, 00:50
Silver,
I agree with your 1st point regarding HEMS/air ambulance.

i dont believe the aer corp can carry out their military duties as well as being a back up service for SAR and air ambulance with only 4 A-139's. If the ARW expect 24 hr availibility of a heli that will probably tie up 2 airframes.As it stands now the aer corp can not provide SAR backup, there has been no SAR training in the corp since the cessation of operations at Sligo, (dare i say it, thats a different story/topic).
crews have moved onto different jobs.

not wishing to be pedantic but that nice photograph you have taken, the aircraft is actually a BK-117.

I agree that 4 airframes are not enough to cover all three tasks - but I suspect that is what the DoD is promising/expecting.

Re: EC-135/145/BK-117, I reckoned it was not an EC-135, but it was my best description ! :wink:

Enlighten me ......BK-117 ???

BTW, it's based at Christchurch Airport - I worked near there and saw it 'on station' and take-off many times (also saw many USAF and RNZAF transport planes at the nearby 'Operation Deep Freeze' RNAZF airbase).

Silver.

DeV
1st May 2005, 02:32
Having now read the whole report (it took me a while) I am a bit more enlighted. But the report doesn't actually make any recommendations, apart from stating there is potential demand 400 to 600 inter-hospital transfers annually.

Personally, out of the options I'd go for the tierary/secondary option. Tierary is basicly inter-hospital transfer. Secondary, an ambulance arranges to meet helicopter at point X.

Crewing would be the problem. Firstly, contract out or operate like GASU (what i'd go for). Secondly, the medical crew - decidicated at helicopter base / pick up from hospital. You have to balance time versus specialist help. For these types of operations (ie tierary/secondary) time isn't as critical.

Vmax
1st May 2005, 09:28
Silver,
the only reason i mentioned it was just in case you thought that was the tpye of training aircraft the corp were getting.
check this out http://www.ainonline.com/Features/pilotreport03/AIN_pr_ec145.html.As goldie said from a cosmetic point of view the 135 has a fenstrom, 117 conventional tail rotor 145 looks like a 135 on steriods but with a conventional tail rotor.It is a hybrid between the 135 & 145.

Roger McGee
1st May 2005, 10:54
I believe the avionics need to be upgraded,other than that,I dont believe helis suffer from airframe time as much as fixed wing.

I don't see why the dauphin couldn't be used. As far as I know the avionics are good on the Dauphin their IFR capable glass cockpit and the whole shabang. Again not sure but with the vibrations going on with a heli there's a lot of stress on their airframe, but that shouldn't matter because these things are constantly been worked on, there's probably not one part on that those aircraft that was on it when the aircraft was bought.

DeV
1st May 2005, 14:46
The Dauphins need an avonics upgrade which was priced at e1.5 million each (c1998 prices). This is mainly due to the unique fit the AC aircraft got, with a mixture of digital & analogue equipment. Would they still be able to do 1000 hours annually.

http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?id=3924&lang=ENG&loc=1280

Roger McGee
1st May 2005, 15:38
What extra avionics do they need they we're doing off-shore SAR with the avionics they have now with out much trouble.

Goldie fish
1st May 2005, 15:40
What extra avionics do they need they we're doing off-shore SAR with the avionics they have now with out much trouble.

What makes you think that? Did you read the Tramore report by any chance?

Turkey
1st May 2005, 22:13
The current avionics fit on the Dauphins are too heavy, which effected proformance and robbed fuel carrying capablity, this was a cause of the Tramore disaster.
One Dauphin is already stopped, out of use, the others should follow by the end of the year. They are looking for a buyer, I do not think they will be seen on Ebay, but anything is possable. :biggrin:

Bosco
1st May 2005, 23:43
chatting to a friend of mine recently she said that the air corps are going to buy EC135's by the end of next year anyone know anything????

Turkey
2nd May 2005, 00:50
Errr, the 2 EC135's have already been orderd and will be deliverd by the end of the year.........or do u read any of the earlier posts here?

Goldie fish
2nd May 2005, 09:00
Its not like there are hundreds of threads dedicated to it or anything...

Bosco
2nd May 2005, 10:29
crap missed it.
apologies!

Goldie fish
3rd May 2005, 09:25
Got this from a mate of mine,waiting for his sources,take it as you get it.


http://www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au/pprune/actsm.gif
http://www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au/pprune/actsm.gif
http://www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au/pprune/actsm.gif

I was going to log onto your website http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/showthread.php?t=1010&page=3 to tell you that the Air Ambulance will consist of a couple of Bell 222's based out of Galway, however it won't let me log on, so will just tell ya instead.
Strange considering bell stopped making Airwolf a while back, but thats the way it is!

Should have just gone for the 902 Notar explorer, it would give people less to complain about.
http://www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au/pprune/pc.jpg


Still though, even though it is old, the 222 has a touch of class!
http://www.lepore.ca/chopper/kno.jpg
http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Bell%20222%2003.jpg
http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Dawson/corp2.jpg
http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Dawson/corp4.jpg
http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Dawson/corp3.jpg

Itchy
3rd May 2005, 09:49
Ah pprune gotta love it...

Goldie fish
3rd May 2005, 10:30
WHo him or me?

Steamy Window
3rd May 2005, 10:51
pprune= professional pilots rumour network

pilots version of IMO/arrse

Goldie fish
3rd May 2005, 11:07
Ah right.

Bosco
3rd May 2005, 12:30
Nice one! Any idea how many will be bought/ leased?

Slacker
3rd May 2005, 12:44
pprune= professional pilots rumour network

pilots version of IMO/arrse

With over 90,000 members!

Slacker
3rd May 2005, 12:56
The last heli pad in service around the Dublin area is Tallaght.It is now as good as condemed, there is something like 16 tower cranes in the vicinity.

Didn't stop a Dauphin landing there a while back.....

Steamy Window
3rd May 2005, 13:08
Theres a heli pad in booterstown marsh- shouldnt be there and was to supposed to have been demolished but is still being used...

Vmax
3rd May 2005, 14:12
Didn't stop a Dauphin landing there a while back.....
i said it is AS GOOD AS COMDEMED.it all depends on wind conditions and the status of the casualty.It can be used for SAR/ life and death, but not inter hospital transfer.There is nothing wrong with the pad itself, it the recent additions of tower cranes.

Goldie fish
23rd May 2005, 04:24
208 Medevac/hospital transfers carried out by the Air Corps in the last calender year,fyi.

Goldie fish
25th June 2006, 01:28
24 June 2006


School pitch doubles as helipad for hospital choppers

By Sean O’Riordan
AFTER a three-year absence, helicopters will be able to land near the country’s only level-one trauma hospital, it was confirmed yesterday.

The Health Services Executive (HSE) had come in for stinging criticism since the helipad was closed in 2003, to make way for the redevelopment of the multi-million euro A&E unit at Cork University Hospital.

However, the HSE has now reached agreement with adjoining school, Scoil Sproid Naomh in Bishopstown, to use its playing pitch for landings as a temporary measure, until a proper helipad is reinstated in the hospital grounds itself.





When the helipad closed, emergency cases were flown into Cork Airport and then had to be taken by ambulance to the hospital.

The time delay, it was claimed, could cost lives. The Irish Patients’ Association (IPA) asked the HSE to replace the helipad as soon as possible. Its chairman, Stephen McMahon, said quick access to the hospital for emergency cases was essential.

CUH deputy general manager Tony Long said the construction of the hospital’s new A&E department, which opened in April 2005, extended to an area encompassing the existing helipad and beyond, resulting in the loss of the facility.

County councillor Tim Lombard (FG), who had been critical of the loss of helipad, said he welcomed the news that it was to be reinstated.

“It is vital that the helipad is reinstated. If there is a major accident at sea it will constitute an important part of our National Emergency Plan,” Mr Lombard said.

http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=6735-qqqx=1.asp

hptmurphy
25th June 2006, 03:59
get over it ffs ..only in Cork.....put a flat reinforced roof on any building..insatnt helipad...now all you need is some luantic to land on it.

Next thing you'll want your own wing down there..

spike
25th June 2006, 23:24
Any of the drivers who picked up from the pad on top of govt buildings might be considered that sort of lunatic, there's a few of them out there!!

Goldie fish
26th June 2006, 00:16
CUH used to have a fantastic pad, with excellent approaches, within 100m of A&E. The Pitch they will now be using is at the wrong side of the Hospital, but still way better than the 5 mile drive through one of the busiest junctions in the country(after the Mad cow roundabout).
Many a time I witnessed the garda motorcycle escort dashing to meet a patient at cork airport,to escort the patient in an ambulance to CUH, only for the urgency to cease half ways there.
The minutes can, and do mean the difference between life and death.

spike
26th June 2006, 00:34
agree with you there, the golden ninety mins i believe is what they call the time after an accident. alright admittedly we don't have a true air ambulance service in the country so it doesn't relate. point being tho' better an hour or so door to door by air than god only knows how long by road and how much smoother, turbelence notwithstanding

Boomer
26th June 2006, 09:58
agree with you there, the golden ninety mins i believe is what they call the time after an accident. alright admittedly we don't have a true air ambulance service in the country so it doesn't relate. point being tho' better an hour or so door to door by air than god only knows how long by road and how much smoother, turbelence notwithstanding

Golden Hour :)

Orion
23rd October 2006, 22:42
One mans cast off?

Another mans life saver:

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=426117

http://www.cumberland-news.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=425672


Why are the Dauphin's not being re-tasked or indeed being donated to an air ambulance charity?

Seems like a waste of perfectly serviceable aircraft.

Goldie fish
23rd October 2006, 23:34
No point donating them unless said charity has the means to run them. Compared to more modern aircraft, Our Dauphins are quite maintenance intensive.

DeV
24th October 2006, 20:56
Seems like a waste of perfectly serviceable aircraft.

I thought so but their avonics fit is too complex.