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  • Dublin Guard

    From Wikipedia:

    The Dublin Guard was a unit of the Irish Republican Army, in the Irish War of Independence and then of the Irish Army during the Irish Civil War 1922-23.

    It was founded in May 1921, when the Active Service Unit of the Irish Republican Army's Dublin Brigade and the "Squad" assassination unit were amalgamated. The Guard was created due to the heavy losses sustained by the Dublin Brigade in their assault on the Customs House on May 26 1921. Eight IRA volunters were killed in the operation and over 120 captured. Paddy Daly, previously head of the Squad, was put in command of the new unit.

    The Guard became part of the new Irish Army of the Irish Free State in January 1922. They were supportive of the Anglo-Irish Treaty which split the IRA, in large part because of their personal loyalty to Michael Collins. At this time, its numbers were greatly expanded from a core of IRA veterans to a larger unit, with many new recruits. On the outbreak of the Irish Civil War in June 1922, The Dublin Guard were heavily involved in securing Dublin for the Free State (see Battle of Dublin).

    These troops were among the most experienced and motivated men possessed by the Irish Free State in the civil war. For this reason, they were to the forefront in the Free State offensive of July-August 1922 which took the so called Munster Republic and secured most of the territory of the new state for its government. They landed in Fenit in county Kerry in August 1922 and rapidly took Tralee and the other major towns in that county.

    In the later stages of the war, the Dublin Guard, still stationed in county Kerry, was charged with putting down the guerrilla activities of the local anti-treaty IRA. The Dublin Guard were perhaps embittered by the killing of their erstwhile commander in chief, Michael Collins, and of their comrades in several ambushes. As a result, they acted with great severity in Kerry. On at least three occasions in 1923, they massacred republican prisoners, after inflicting great cruelty. This often led to reprisals by the anti-treaty IRA.
    Was this the only army unit which received a British Army- style name? Was it disbanded or what happened? Would the 2nd or the 5th be its descendants today?
    "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

  • #2
    There's a photo of some of these lads in Kickham Barracks museum. The donor said it was taken in Clonmel. I'll scan it next week.

    But the National Army troops that captured Clonmel advanced from Waterford in conjunction with the assault on Kerry. The Waterford attack was led by Gen John Prout.
    sigpic
    Say NO to violence against Women

    Originally posted by hedgehog
    My favourite moment was when the
    Originally posted by hedgehog
    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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    • #3
      I don't think they were called the Dublin Guard until the Civil War. Former members of the Guard were recalled to Dublin battalions of the LDF during the Emergency, those battalions got merged into the 20th Battalion FCA so the 62nd Battalion could claim lineage.

      Was the Blue Hussars an official title? If so they'd be another example of taking BA-style names.
      "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Steamy Window View Post
        From Wikipedia:



        Was this the only army unit which received a British Army- style name? Was it disbanded or what happened? Would the 2nd or the 5th be its descendants today?
        The Dublin Brigade originally comprised the 2nd and 5th Battalions, but these numerals are coincidental and do not bear any direct connection with the corresponding units of today.
        Originally posted by FMolloy View Post
        Was the Blue Hussars an official title? If so they'd be another example of taking BA-style names.
        I'm not sure, but I don't believe it was.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by FMolloy View Post
          Was the Blue Hussars an official title? If so they'd be another example of taking BA-style names.
          AFAIK they were officially The Mounted Escort, the Blue Hussars was a nickname. I don't think they were a unit as such, being drawn from the Artillery Corps for ceremonial occasions.
          sigpic
          Say NO to violence against Women

          Originally posted by hedgehog
          My favourite moment was when the
          Originally posted by hedgehog
          red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

          Comment


          • #6
            the guard

            dublin guard g.o.c. paddy o daly merger of asu and the squad odaly later discharged over the kenmare affair can anyone shed any light on that one? they let rip through kerry in 23 and 24 atrocity after atrocity ballyseedy topping the bill, lost approx 70 kia themselves in this period. called themselves the pioneers, see ballyseedy by rte/leargas really brings it to life,yes i am sure their batallion lineage can be traced,but would a unit want to be associated with these old Bush men?cav
            "The tide doesn't come up for another six hours, you want to wait around here for another six hours ?"

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            • #7
              What do you mean by 'Bush men'?

              I wouldn't see why a unit would have a problem associating themselves with the Guard, the vast majority of them were just soldiers & not responsible for 'atrocity after atrocity'.

              There was some nasty stuff done by IRA units during the War of Independence, do you think current DF units should shy away from being associated with them too?
              "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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              • #8
                The Dublin Guard did have a particularly nasty reputation, particularly in Munster.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                  The Dublin Guard did have a particularly nasty reputation, particularly in Munster.
                  Very true, members of the Guard killed prisoners. But so did other Free State units and so did the Irregulars, and the IRA did similar stuff during the War of Independence.

                  Where do you draw the line & say we accept lineage from this unit, but not that one?
                  "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                  • #10
                    Hi all
                    Then that begs the question about whether Sinn Fein/IRA are correct in claiming lineage from the Old IRA. After all, both the Fianna Fail party and the Shinners make the annual trip to Bodenstown every year to tip the hat to Wolfe Tone/republicanism. Who has the greater claim?
                    As for Ballyseedy, I am led to believe that the monument there is located at the wrong place, but that the Kerry County Council haven't the balls to move it into the correct site, because of the furore the likes of gunrunner Ferris would cause.
                    regards
                    GttC

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      The Dublin Guard did have a particularly nasty reputation, particularly in Munster.
                      Probably deserved and probably why they won the war.
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                      Say NO to violence against Women

                      Originally posted by hedgehog
                      My favourite moment was when the
                      Originally posted by hedgehog
                      red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        AFAIK This is an extract from the examiner newspaper written by T Ryle Dwyer from 22/08/02
                        "...shortly after the end of the Civil War, when O'Daly, Flood and Clarke of Ballyseedy infamy were accused of assaulting two daughters of a Kenmare doctor who happened to be a Free State supporter. The assault was of a sexual nature, but nobody dared say that openly at the time. Mulcahy decided against prosecuting the officers, much to the chagrin of the politicians. Mulcahy had saved O'Daly, but the latter and his IRAO colleagues were still bitterly disillusioned with the Government and the IRB element within the army..."
                        Flood and Clarke were two Capts and were reputed to have assembled the mine that was used at Ballyseedy.
                        I can't make you do anything but i can make you wish you had.

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                        • #13
                          What was the largest number of fatalities suffered by the IRA in a single incident during the war of independence. According to a poster above 8 died in the Custom House raid? How many died at the Clonmult (Co. Cork) incident -- the subject of a recent book?

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                          • #14
                            The Guards

                            Originally posted by FMolloy View Post
                            What do you mean by 'Bush men'?

                            I wouldn't see why a unit would have a problem associating themselves with the Guard, the vast majority of them were just soldiers & not responsible for 'atrocity after atrocity'.

                            There was some nasty stuff done by IRA units during the War of Independence, do you think current DF units should shy away from being associated with them too?
                            They began life at Beggars Bush barracks, for an incredibly honest and natural account of being in the dublin guard in those times see pinkmans book, legion of the vanguard.It was real wild west stuff, the guards nickname for the anti treaty IRA ;"the padjoes" .see also the incredible story of the whys and wherefores of Ballyseedy in the leargas documentary "Ballyseedy".

                            No ,what the guards did in Kerry was totally beyond the pale of acceptable human conduct,it was pure horror.Pinkman got out shortly after arriving in Kerry, so appalled was he,and he had seen action in with the guards in O Connell st.See also Kerry Landing by Niall Harrington, he too was horrified, it was beyond evil.Contrast this with Emmet Daltons Command area in Cork.
                            "The tide doesn't come up for another six hours, you want to wait around here for another six hours ?"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cav View Post
                              No ,what the guards did in Kerry was totally beyond the pale of acceptable human conduct,it was pure horror...
                              I doubt it. Did they ethnically cleanse Co. Kerry? Set up death camps and gas millions of republicans? That sort of thing is pure evil and beyond the pale of acceptable human conduct. Murdering PWs is commonplace and was certainly unremarkable for the Irish Civil War. There were at least two summary executions in Clonmel barracks in 1923 which were dressed up as accidents.
                              sigpic
                              Say NO to violence against Women

                              Originally posted by hedgehog
                              My favourite moment was when the
                              Originally posted by hedgehog
                              red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                              Comment

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