View Full Version : a curiosity

25th March 2008, 14:11

This is a bit of curiosity - a Saracen armoured car. It's South African (I think). Anyone know what the gun is?

25th March 2008, 14:31
Looks like a 90 gun

25th March 2008, 14:54
90mm DEFA?

Connaught Stranger
25th March 2008, 15:03
The Saracen Armoured Car was a British Design,

this looks like a hybrid, possibly with a 75mm - 90mm gun.

Connaught Stranger.:smile:

25th March 2008, 16:18
More views:



25th March 2008, 17:15
Australian? They definitly recycled turrets a lot.

Goldie fish
25th March 2008, 21:24
Gun could be a dummy. Doesnt appear to be any mantlet. No Buffer . Could they be Bolts just hidden by the barrel of the 30 cal?

25th March 2008, 22:03
It looks like adummy turret wouldn't acommate the gun ..never mind a crew an ammunition
Turret is so light the recoil would lift it clear of the hull.

Goldie knows about these 90 things more than most ...and having operated in a 90 turret..that just ain't a whole gun!

25th March 2008, 22:24
Its a mockup. The gun appears to be fixed?

Thats the standard turret, if you look at a photo of a saracen with someone in it, theres barely room for them and the browing. Where do you propose the 90mm fits?

Normal armament for a saracen was browing 0.30s and bren guns. To the best of my knowledge they werent upgunned from this. Also look at the muzzle break, there is something just not right about it!

25th March 2008, 22:53
Muzzle brake is from the DEFA on the AML 90

B Inman
25th March 2008, 23:05
Turret seems way too small for a 90mm.

Goldie fish
25th March 2008, 23:10
Its the standard Saracen/Ferret turret, as fitted with 30 cal. Someone has bolted on a bit of pipe for effect.

25th March 2008, 23:16
The "turret", to my eyes at least, looks similar to the Ratel 90 turret. A prototype intended to deceive Angolans/Cubans to believe that they were facing more Ratels?

California Tanker
26th March 2008, 00:41
I compared with the Ratel, that's not it.

Goldie's nailed it. Look at the closeup of the mantlet, and look for the ability to elevate.


Goldie fish
26th March 2008, 04:58
The "turret", to my eyes at least, looks similar to the Ratel 90 turret. A prototype intended to deceive Angolans/Cubans to believe that they were facing more Ratels?

The Ratel Turret is a 2 man turret. it is identical in many ways to the Eland/Panhard turret. The Saracen/ferret turret shown there is a one man only "hatch". The ratel is a much larger(an in my opinion excellent) vehicle.

Ratel(from same site as earlier abomination)
Saracen(standard single man turret)

Connaught Stranger
26th March 2008, 06:30
Looking at the additional pictures provided, its possibly a mock-up for "war-games" or disguised "recon" vehicle, whatever it is there is no room in the turret to accommodate any recoil mechanism of a real gun.
Connaught Stranger

28th March 2008, 11:18
Yeah, the gun seems to be a dummy alright - well-spotted!

Is it the standard turret, or is it bigger than usual?

Connaught Stranger
15th April 2008, 09:57
The SALADIN ex-British armored cars, pictured here, in use in Beirut

with the Lebanese Army around 1979.

The Saladin was a six-wheeled armored car armed with a 76mm main gun.

Alvis Vehicles Limited produced 1,177 of them from 1959 to 1972.

Seems the driver has a M.16 as does the guy on the right side of the turret.

The chassis was the same as that used for the Saracen A.P.C.

There is one up for grabs, at:- http://www.tanks2go.com/for_sale/saladin.htm

for $33,000:wink:

Connaught Stranger.:smile: