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riflemangundy
14th September 2008, 22:44
Heard the Army are buying a new batch of vehicles that will pull the new 120mm's ,, also has to carry a crew of six (Not sure if that includes the driver tho)Looks like things are on the up for the DROP SHORTS:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Goldie fish
14th September 2008, 22:50
6+1=7

Any 7 seat 4x4 then.

Archimedes
15th September 2008, 00:04
Heard that the transport budget got chopped and that there is now no money for them.

DeV
15th September 2008, 09:04
Did they not get rid of the 120s?

Archimedes
15th September 2008, 11:33
They replaced the old ones with Ruag M87s from Switzerland.
The were fired by the first instructor course in the glen last thursday.

btw; the vehicles that they were looking at were crew cabs that would have seated 5 and taken all of the crews gear in the back.
The driver would be one of the six on the crew.
Another member of the crew would normally travel ahead with the recce party.

paul
15th September 2008, 12:32
there ment to be some form of pick-up, so they the gear could be just pilled on the back, forget the make though.

edit:
there ford f something something:biggrin:

fred the red
15th September 2008, 14:09
They replaced the old ones with Ruag M87s from Switzerland.
The were fired by the first instructor course in the glen last thursday.

btw; the vehicles that they were looking at were crew cabs that would have seated 5 and taken all of the crews gear in the back.
The driver would be one of the six on the crew.
Another member of the crew would normally travel ahead with the recce party.

Are all the eighty ones being replaced.

Barry
15th September 2008, 15:00
Are all the eighty ones being replaced.
No - 81s are an infantry weapon.

paul
15th September 2008, 15:38
Old 120mm are gone and have been replaced with "new" second hand 120mm, doesn't matter though, still blows s**t up:biggrin:

Archimedes
15th September 2008, 15:43
The pdf regiments will continue to hang onto the 81s for the time being. The rdf regiments never had their own 81s anyway.

There are also 81mm insert barrels that fit into the new 120s. This allows a battery to train and deploy as if they were using 120s but save a bit of money for the tax-payers by firing the cheaper 81mm ammunition.

The difference between an 81 round going off versus a 120 is very impressive. Looking at the numbers, you might think that the 120 is only 50% bigger. If you compare the amount of tnt though, a 120 round holds 3kg versus 0.75kg for an 81. Large chunks of the ground are thrown into the sky. When the rounds are set for airburst, the effect is even more impressive.

Goldie fish
15th September 2008, 16:58
Fekin dropshorts taking over an AFV and vehicle thread with their talk about "guns"......

grumble..

mowaghead
15th September 2008, 20:29
heard they MAY be going into mowags??

paul
15th September 2008, 20:36
heard they MAY be going into mowags??

no, they were thinking about it but like all things that plan was scraped so they just got towed ones

Archimedes
15th September 2008, 23:29
It wasn't an either/or situation.
Bighorn could still happen in limited numbers.
It would have obvious benefits for deployment overseas.
The fact that it would use a Mowag platform makes it very attractive as regards spares/maintainance etc.

California Tanker
23rd September 2008, 16:29
There are also 81mm insert barrels that fit into the new 120s. This allows a battery to train and deploy as if they were using 120s but save a bit of money for the tax-payers by firing the cheaper 81mm ammunition.


We're actually turning in our 81 sleeves in my unit. Yes, it's cheaper to shoot per round, but it's just another item to keep in the logistical inventory. The main reason it was kept was so that if we were doing an assault or some such, the 81mm has a smaller danger area so your troops can get closer before you have to turn off the mortars. Start with the 120s, then turn to 81s. With the accuracy of the later 120mm mortar systems, and thus a reduction in risk estimate distances it's been decided that we just don't need the extra hassle of lugging more stuff around in multiple calibres, taking up room that could be used by 120mm rounds.

NTM

Barry
23rd September 2008, 16:37
the Irish army tends to only care about making it cheaper per round, so we're unlikely to follow the American model

GoneToTheCanner
24th September 2008, 08:47
Bar has it right.If they could get away with firing wooden ones, they'd do it.
regards
GttC

DeV
24th September 2008, 17:34
Timber tactics!

GoneToTheCanner
24th September 2008, 19:53
Does the introduction of non-wheeled mortars, requiring manual emplacement, not constitute a bad idea in these days of highly mobile warfare.I'da thunk that a Mowag bomb-thrower would be a useful thing to have around...
regards
GttC

X-RayOne
25th September 2008, 00:26
you'da thunk right!!!

ridiculous to try to have a mobile light infantry army and not have the support elements not being able to keep up with the nowadays more mobile infantry formations.

imho all artillary should be self propelled in the DF. introduction of the mowags have seen huge improvements in mobility and survivability for infantry and cavalry... the arty should be on a par.

Jadotville Jack
25th September 2008, 02:37
Please lets get some landrovers.

California Tanker
25th September 2008, 03:58
In fairness, another rather well-regarded light infantry force, the US Marines, has recently ordered a bunch of towed M326 120mm mortars as opposed to buying self-propelled.

NTM

X-RayOne
25th September 2008, 10:27
the advantage they have over ireland though is massive airlift resourses as another option to move the arty pieces if necessary. we don't at present so the only way is by vehicle...and these vehicles should be as capable as the others being used.

easyrider
25th September 2008, 11:19
Came across this... kind of a half-way house between towed and mobile..

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/LAND_M326_and_120mm_Mortar_From_HMMWV_lg.jpg

"In an age of artillery trackback radars, one of the most important attributes for any artillery system is speedy set-up and take-down. The M109A6 Paladin fixed that problem for the USA’s 155mm self-propelled howitzers, but what about those large 120mm mortars that weigh 300 pounds, and have to be manhandled into and out of place over many minutes?

In this case, the solution was rather less expensive. BAE Systems invented the M326 120mm Mortar Stowage System, a simple and rugged device that can be easily attached to the M1101 Trailer, Hummers, or Trucks. The assembled mortar base plate, tube and bipod are held together as a unit by a steel strut that connects the mortar to the M326’s hydraulic lift arm, which hoists the fully assembled M120 Mortar in and out. During tests, mount and dismount of a fully assembled M120 Mortar have been achieved in less than 20 seconds. Jim Unterseher, BAE Systems’ vice president of Army Programs claims that with the M326, a 120-mm mortar crew can set-up, fire and be on the move again in 3 minutes without having to lift the heavy tube.

BAE Systems has now received a $13.9 million contract from the U.S. Army to procure 588 M236 Mortar Stowage Systems. The contract calls for BAE Systems to begin low-rate initial production (LRIP) immediately and deliver the first 52 M326 systems to the Army by October 2008, then deliver an additional 536 systems through full-rate production, which will begin immediately following LRIP completion. All of systems will be assembled at the Louisville, Kentucky, facility and will be delivered by early 2010. The contract also includes options for funding the delivery of up to 100 additional systems, as well as new equipment training, installation, warehousing and spares. If all options are exercised, the contract could grow to $20.6 million."

Fireplace
25th September 2008, 15:00
Singapore Technologies Kinetics 120 Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System (SRAMS) on BAE Systems OMC RG-31Mk 5

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3059/2886866497_f6c943db28_o.jpg

http://www.janes.com/events/exhibitions/idex2007/day3/agrab-mortar-nears-produc.shtml

And the STK Spider with (SRAMS)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2886866289_cc14376511_o.jpg