Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Army may face cuts to fund TA reservists

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Army may face cuts to fund TA reservists

    The government is considering making further cuts to the size of the Army to enable a "substantial increase" in reserve forces such as the TA.
    An independent review of reserve forces is expected to recommend a recruitment drive for more part-time soldiers.
    Better pay and training will be offered but there will be more emphasis on reservists in civilian jobs to go on military operations when needed.
    The government already plans to reduce soldiers by 7,000 to 95,000 by 2015.
    The review, which is set to be published next week, is calling for more part-time soldiers, sailors and airmen in the TA, the Royal Naval Reserve and the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve.
    The aim is to make the reserves more professional, forming more stand-alone units that can deploy and operate on their own, rather than just attaching reservists in small groups across the regular forces.
    'Upfront cash'
    Reservists cost much less than regular forces and increasing their number would in the long run save the Ministry of Defence (MoD) substantial sums.
    The government is already cutting the size of the full-time army as a result of the defence spending review announced last year.
    Any further cuts in the regular army - to help pay for increasing the reserves - would begin only after combat troops have left Afghanistan in 2015.
    There are currently around 36,000 servicemen and women in the TA, with a few thousand in the maritime and air force reserves.
    One defence source said the MoD would need upfront cash to pay for an expansion of the TA but he added that "more reserves will mean fewer regulars but not until we are out of Afghanistan".
    He added that the reduction in full time servicemen and women would be "over and on top of" existing planned cuts.
    An MoD spokesperson said: "Following the Strategic Defence and Security Review a series of additional studies have been undertaken to continue the work of transforming and rebalancing defence.
    "We expect to announce the findings of these studies to Parliament next week and it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time."


    BBC

  • #2
    Bit like kill off your reservists its cheaper
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

    Comment


    • #3
      great news for the Reservists and to be honest i don't think it's such a bad thing for the Army.

      we, the Regulars, are becoming leaner and better equipped all the time.

      the Reservists are already engaged in Operations wherever we go - improving our Reserve force is a welcome investment.

      nice one.
      RGJ

      ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

      The Rifles

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
        great news for the Reservists and to be honest i don't think it's such a bad thing for the Army.

        we, the Regulars, are becoming leaner and better equipped all the time.

        the Reservists are already engaged in Operations wherever we go - improving our Reserve force is a welcome investment.

        nice one.
        The Swiss have been using this model (large Reserve force, smaller permanent force)
        for many year now

        I vaguely recall an article in An Cosantoir in the early 90s about this

        I wonder will the employment protection be improved ? From what I have read and
        heard here and there, employment protection is not as robust in the UK for Reservists as I first thought
        "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

        Comment


        • #5
          I've been saying this for ages with regards to the Irish Army. There's limited operational responsibility for the Irish Army, so it makes sense to cut down on the standing army and develop a more professional reserve. But sure, that would make sense.

          As for the British army, it makes sense, much like the use of contractors, they need soldiering done on the cheap, particularly in the CSS role.

          Comment


          • #6
            As might be expected this has provoked a debate on arrse

            my favourite and the most enlightening is the follows



            It's the culmination of a creeping policy that started post 89 with the 'peace savings' following the demise of the Red Beast. Chop the Regs no probs. Then another review post Gulf 1 which was 'use the TA for all support roles and specialists' As one briefing from MOD I attended in the 90's was easily stated by the Civil Servant selling the idea, a Col stood up and said that his field hospital was staffed by members from Guys, Great Ormond St and the Middlesex but the calculation had always been for TOTAL WAR. He could not see the NHS being happy, nor the public, if everyone b###ered off to foreign climes for either war or aid to civil power and left folks waiting for Ops etc. This was ignored and we got AF 95 which stated that any TA soldier, once trained, was liable for call-up for 12 months in any 3 years. That is still the case. Some units have used this to try and get guys/gals on a 6 month followed by another, however this rare as most TA reading this knows. First a TA soldier has to go off for training to bring her/him up to strength at the start of their tenure, then there is theatre, then leave and demob to be reenlisted back into the TA. The average for this is 10 months, sometimes longer. That individual CAN NOT be called up for a further 2 years after their commitment - unless, of course they volunteer. Next comes the employer, family etc. Small firms are not going to put up with Fred/Jenny going off for 12 months every couple of years and leaving them to fill the gap. Especially as many are for skilled/professional support roles as the Regular units have been scrapped. Then there is the infill for Inf and others. The current estimated strength of the TA is 36,000 (that's those on the books) which counts all from the folks doing basic to those who are on the ghost list but kept there for funding for the current financial year. 1 in 7 are currently assessed as being able to be of a standard to be mobilised. Unlike the National Guard these people do not get grants for education, pensions etc. It was done by bean counters to get bodies on the cheap and look at those who have given the ultimate sacrifice over the conflicts we have been dragged into since 1990. Many current volunteers are asked by units to clear with their employers first before the call up notice is sent - it's usually mutually agreed. I would like to know the figures for those who returned from a tour still remained in the TA, in some cases the individuals have a one use then go so need a TRAINED replacement for the next call up. It's been estimated to cover the current great idea that £150 million would be needed to fund it. Perhaps we could divert some money from India/China/EU to pay for it? It's the latest in winding down the Regular forces which has been going on for years. Every time they say they will improve conditions they get rid of a few Bns to pay for it. I'll see what happens when they publish the White paper in due course, but in my opinion the current shower couldn't run a bath. The previous mongs were bad enough but this lot I despair over which is sad as they usually back the Services. That's what happens when we get led by a bunch of Uni types who have money but no experience outside of their little circle.
            I'm off to the pub!



            Actually i think there is a need for a more professional reserve, but reservists cannot take over from regulars in the CSS role. As the above poster poiint out six months overseas actually means the best part of a year, and a lot of employers couldn't afford that.

            Comment


            • #7
              The rules of the world haven't changed that much.

              As Paul G and his Quotee stated, the idea of a mostly reserve force (see patterns in countries like Sweden which had largely conscript/reserve forces in addition to their "RDF" the homeguard.) only works for total war scenarios where normal economic and social activities are displaced for the war effort.

              If you want to be involved in the world when not in a state of total war you need adequate professional forces. The Reserve elements can certainly provide a valuable adjunct to that but it's just a miser's fantasy (and certain associations nightmares) that one can effectively replace the other.
              "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

              Comment


              • #8
                nitpicking here, but sweden has abandoned conscription and reduced its army to seven battalions,


                reserves have a role, but i think that the condems have floated this because theywant to prep for the coming cuts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Have any of the gents proposing this disaster being listening to the news or even taken a look out the window lately? NATO is not even a paper tiger any more and Russia is falling back into bad old habits. Not to mention that the Dragon may soon need a distraction from economic and political woes.

                  This will not end well.

                  Condems. That might be an even more apt name than ConLibs for the current crowd.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is the senario the brass here fear. and the reason they avoid

                    bring the RDF up to there full potential. in case some civy servant notices

                    and starts looking for brownie points

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by paul g View Post
                      nitpicking here, but sweden has abandoned conscription and reduced its army to seven battalions,


                      reserves have a role, but i think that the condems have floated this because theywant to prep for the coming cuts.
                      Hence the use of the past tense of the verb to have.
                      "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Marching into history? The Coldstream Guards 'facing the axe' under defence cuts after 360 years

                        By Daily Mail Reporter

                        The British Army's oldest regiment is facing the axe under major defence cuts, it was claimed today.
                        The Coldstream Guards - loved by tourists for their red tunics and bearskin hats - are the No1 target for the top brass.
                        Soldiers of the 360-year-old regiment are expected to be sacrificed as part of the Ministry of Defence's plans to reduce the Army from 101,000 to 80,000 troops.



                        Proud:The Coldstream Guards in their famous bearskin hats are a big attraction for tourists

                        The Irish, Scottish and Welsh guards have been saved for reasons of 'regional sensitivity' and the Grenardier Guards are more famous than their Coldstream counterparts.
                        GLORY HISTORY OF THE FIGHTING 'LILYWHITES'



                        The regiment has a proud history, boasting 13 Victoria Crosses, a George Cross and 117 battle honours in its 360-year history.
                        Coldstream Guards, nicknamed 'Lilywhites,' were formed in the English Civil War when Oliver Cromwell gave Colonel George Monck permission to have his own regiment.

                        It took part in the Battle of Dunbar, where the Roundheads defeated the royalist forces of Charles Stuart.

                        After Cromwell's death, Monck supported the monarchy and on January 1, 1660 crossed the River Tweed into England at the village of Coldstream and began a five-week march to London.

                        He arrived in London on February 2 and helped in the restoration of the monarchy. For his help, Monck was given the Order of the Garter and his regiment was assigned to keep order in London.
                        It fought with distinction particularly at the Battle of Waterloo. The regiment suffered terrible casualties in World War One, twice losing all its officers.
                        The guards were the first to enter Sarajevo in the Balkan conflict and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan.



                        The move is said to have been reluctantly agreed by the Queen, who is the regiment's colonel-in-chief, according to the Sunday Express.
                        A senior army source told the paper that the royal household 'wants to be seen to be doing its part' to share the defence cuts.

                        But the decision has been branded an act of 'unconscionable vandalism' by one brigadier and came under fire from a Tory MP.
                        Coldstream Guards, motto Second To None, have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and returned from the frontline in April last year.
                        Millions of tourists watch them Trooping the Colour, marching on Remembrance Sunday and providing a guard for the Queen's Birthday Parade and the State Opening of Parliament.
                        Brigadier Allan Mallinson told the paper: 'It was by the epic march of the Coldstreamers from Tweed to Thames in the winter of 1660 that Charles II was restored to the the throne and the British Army was founded.
                        'It would be an act of unconscionable vandalism to disband the Second regiment of Footguards.'
                        MP Patrick Mercer said he was 'appalled' at the threat to the historic regiment whose former members include actor Edward Fox.
                        A MoD spokesman said: 'The impact of the additional manpower reductions identified in the recent work has yet to be scoped.

                        'Planning is underway and it would be wrong to speculate at this stage.'

                        Daily Mail

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          to be honest - any 5 Battalion regiment such as the Rifles or the Scots are bound to lose a battalion and while the Coldstream Guards are a regiment in themselves they are often seen by others as one of the five Guards battalions of the Guards Regiment (notional).

                          i'd rather see a battalion of Para's go myself but it would be tough to maintain just one battalion (and one in the SFSG role), besides, the maroon mafia in Whitehall would put up a good fight,
                          Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 26 July 2011, 18:31.
                          RGJ

                          ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                          The Rifles

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            How many members of the House of Lords are ex guards officers? I don't see them losing the redcoated ones over another provincial anonomous unit. Houshold division took its fair share of the cuts during options for change, and in addition to their obvious combat role, they are as much part of London's tourism as the Tower, Londons Eye or the West End.
                            They would be missed a lot more than the 2nd Bn Bucks foot and mouth etc.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              that's a valid point Goldie, early days yet to put cuts to names, we wait and see.
                              RGJ

                              ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                              The Rifles

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X