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Mick O'Toole
27th November 2004, 04:06
I know this is a stupid question, but that hasn't stopped me before...does there not seem to be an awful lot of windows in the AB139?

Should there not be more armour plating stuff? (I think that's the technical term)

mutter nutter
27th November 2004, 04:38
mock up of military version

mutter nutter
27th November 2004, 04:40
now that I look at it more, maybe the 139 is a good choice :smile:

futurepilot
27th November 2004, 04:43
WOOOOOOOOOOOOHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I`ve was hoping that we`d get the AB139. It is far superior to the Blackhawk in every manner.

Goldie fish
27th November 2004, 06:46
I know this is a stupid question, but that hasn't stopped me before...does there not seem to be an awful lot of windows in the AB139?

Should there not be more armour plating stuff? (I think that's the technical term)
Have you been reading indymedia again? Its not a gunship(sadly). The windows are for the VIPs.. The doors will spend most of their time open in the UH role.... :cool:

ias
27th November 2004, 07:03
Maybe the AB139s should be ordered with the doors and hinges taken off... to keep the "vips" out! :wink:

IAS

mutter nutter
27th November 2004, 07:04
http://www.bellagusta.com/html/aeroNet/photoGallery/ab139_qtvr.html

take a virtual tour of the AB139

Turkey
27th November 2004, 07:42
Seriously, apperently the Air Corps recomendation was for the AB139.........................

mutter nutter
27th November 2004, 08:45
AB139 formation flight :cool:

mutter nutter
27th November 2004, 10:29
Farnborough 2004

Goldie fish
27th November 2004, 10:36
http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139.htm

So its kinda new....I thought it had to be in production....Fair enough its in production,but as far as I can see only 2 have been delivered to clients other than Agusta...

Bam Bam
27th November 2004, 11:51
It looks more like a flying limo then a military chopper / gunship.

I'm disappointed we didn't get blackhawks, lynx would even be acceptable.

And at least 2 chinook's.

andy
27th November 2004, 18:29
Just one thing strikes me about the AB139. There is hardly one picture of it being deployed as a military helicopter. Every picture I see is carrying VIP's FFS ! Looking at the sliding door, it does look a bit on the small side. Nice big soft seats for VIP's as well.

DeV
27th November 2004, 18:39
The AB139 site doesn't say anything about a military version, or armament. But it can carry up to 15, although I'd say that would decrease with CEFO.

Goldie fish
3rd December 2004, 10:23
Looking at the .pdf brochure,there is an image showing the seating arrangement for the law enforcement model,with ten back to back seats along the centreline,the first two,behind the pilots, designated seating for the Gunners on either side.Seating is similar in design to that seen in the Mowags,for those who have enjoyed their comfort.
Looking at each of the 3 brochures below,you can get an Idea of how the UH can look.

http://www.agustawestland.com/dindoc/AB139%20Offshore_FINAL_7-6-04(2).pdf

http://www.agustawestland.com/dindoc/AB139_Law_Enforcement_FINAL_6-28-04.pdf

http://www.agustawestland.com/dindoc/AB139_SAR_Maritime_Sec_FINAL_6-28-04.pdf

click here for USCG photos (http://212.158.133.3/hwa/antony_morgan/ab139(uscg)/index.htm)

Bam Bam
4th December 2004, 10:50
Just wondering what type of weapon's will/ could be installed on the AB139's?

Also will all 4 utility choppers be equipped with these weapons?

Finally the paint job will they be white or will they be camoflaged?

I have an idea we'll only have 3 new military chopper's( mabye less) the other(s) will be kitted out for VIP transport.

Can't really see the taoiseach flying around the country in a camoflaged chopper with guns sticking out the side's.

faughanballagh
4th December 2004, 12:16
Maybe it will be like the US military, which has Hueys and Blackhawks in VIP configuration for the big boys in Washington...

Goldie fish
4th December 2004, 12:39
It takes seconds to remove a door gun. Minutes to remove its mounting.
The tender mentioned(not that anyone bothers reading it before asking questions) a General Purpose Machine Gun of 7.62mm calibre,on either side.

The seating arrangement can be altered to suit the role. It remains to be seen if Diamond Bertie will look for the VIP fit(which is a kit,which can be removed by ground crew in a couple of hours).This seats 5 VIPs(of nominal weight 90kg) In the past,most VIPs being transported by Helicopter were happy with/tolerated the standard Passenger seating arrangment. The AB139 seats 15 in high density seating or 12 in normal confuguration.

The advantage, If there is one, is that the Current Minister detests flying and has publicly stated he has no intention of travelling in them. With this in mind,it is doubtful he will pay much heed to the comfort of the seating his colleagues will be travelling in.

Another option is that the LUH has sufficient space to do the job of ferrying VIPs,and carry out the training role, without needing to remove seating,allowing the Air Corps to leave the UH in the Utility or Air Ambulance configuration.
Consider also that these aircraft probably will not be delivered till the end of the term of this government. Unless they are in a total world of fantasy,they should know that they will not be in government to enjoy the luxury of travel(They will probably decide to flog the Lear about the same time).They may not care about their successors comfort either.
That said,the VIP seating fit has been specified in the tender,but not as a permanent fixture.

On a slightly connected note, Namibia recently recieved the first of their 2 AB139s.
the timescale for them was:

Date: 18/09/2002
Namibian Government Orders Two AB139 Helicopters

Date: 16/09/2004
Handover Of The First Namibian AB139 Helicopter
This is pretty quick,when you consider that when the order was placed,this aircraft was still in prototype stage. Their model is the eighth model off the production line.

I predict delivery in early to Mid 2006 of the AB139. The EC135 should be here sooner,as there are plenty in production. I think the GASU model left the factory within the year of the order being placed,but spent the remainder of its time sitting in McAlpines factory,being fitted out with its specialised equipment,and waiting for the AC/GS to sort out their internal disputes...

Gasplug
4th December 2004, 19:32
If your going to put any weaponry on a helicopter if should be the GE minigun, the air corps could practise using by vapourising the cows around the country and this would also help prevent the greenhouse effect!!!! :biggrin:

Come-quickly
4th December 2004, 19:38
A129....AB139....whats the difference really? :tongue:
I understand the 139 has a bit more legroom, shouldn't we have got an MLH for VIP work considering whose in government.

Goldie fish
8th December 2004, 21:44
From AgustaWestland Website (http://www.agustawestland.com/communication08_01.asp?id_news=156)


Date: 03/12/2004
Irish Air Corps Selects AB139

AgustaWestland is pleased to announce that, after the full evaluation programme, the Irish Department of Defence has selected the AB139 helicopter for their utility helicopter requirement including troop transport duties, air ambulance, inland search and rescue and VIP transport. Four AB139 helicopters will be delivered to the Air Corps. It is expected that negotiations will be completed later this month and a firm order for the delivery of the AB139’s agreed.

In addition to the selection by the Irish Department of Defence, a number of government agencies around the world are showing a keen interest in the AB139 helicopter, whose modern design and certification standards, combined with its exceptional power-to-weight ratio and high-speed capability, make it ideally suited for law enforcement.


Looking back on the Recent History of the Air Corps, I am trying to see where we go from here. The tender stipulated that interim aircraft could be provided,if the delivery time was expected to be particularly long. In the past this has been done with:
CASA CN235. Leased s/n250 in 1991, s/n252 and 253 delivered in 1994
Gulfstream G3. Leased 249 in 1990, delivered G4 251 in 1991
Bae HS125. Leased 236 in 1979, delivered 238 in 1980

In all three cases above,the original leased aircraft was different to the final purchased aircraft. Agusta have a number of production examples flying about,which though may not be equipped in the same manner as that finally delivered to the Air Corps,would still provide a useful training example to crews while they await the delivery of the ordered aircraft.(259????)

All things considered,I still say two years from now,if all goes well,we should see all six aircraft flying with the roundel from Baldonnel.
Another precedent which has been mentioned is the initial small quantity ordered,4. No mention is made in the above quote of the further options for an additional 2 aircraft. However the Allouette 3 fleet,so long the backbone of the Air Corps Helicopter fleet initially consisted of only 3 aircraft, s/n 195,196,197 delivered in 1963, followed in 1972 by 202, and in 1973 with 211,212, 213,culminating in the delivery of 214 in 1974.
It is then possible that after the delivery of these aircraft and the recognition of their usefulness,that the FG majority Government will order a further 6... :tri:

Goldie fish
8th December 2004, 22:30
http://www.bellagusta.com/img/gallery/ab_11.jpg

The sign says "Limit 05t" meaning the pad is limited to a 5 tonne heli. The AB139 is a six tonne heli.

So who can tel me what other helipad is designed for 5 tonne helis?

Roger McGee
8th December 2004, 23:49
The sign says "Limit 05t" meaning the pad is limited to a 5 tonne heli. The AB139 is a six tonne heli.

Is that not an N and not an M.

Stinger
9th December 2004, 19:31
At a guess would it be the deck on Eithne??

Roger McGee
9th December 2004, 19:47
Looking at the structure and it's position in Goldies photo I'd say that it is a lot more susceptible to weight problems than any Irish landing pads.

FMolloy
9th December 2004, 21:24
What's more susceptible? The heli or the pad?

Roger McGee
10th December 2004, 03:42
The pad.

Goldie fish
11th December 2004, 08:25
Found these pics on franks site of the seating layout for the AB139(Isn't it odd how we are ignoring the EC135 purchase :biggrin: )
http://www.irishairpics.com/iB_html/uploads/post-1-55294-utility.JPG
http://www.irishairpics.com/iB_html/uploads/post-1-55382-untitled.JPG

Bam Bam
24th December 2004, 00:55
Wasn't it the rangers that asked for the new heli's, after op's in east timor?
How do you think the new AB139 will suit them?
Who knows the aoluettes may form a reserve air corp. < (sarcastic)

morpheus
14th January 2005, 20:42
AB139 as Air Ambulance eh? what a load of sh!te. now that REALLY does make me sick...

[RANT MODE ENGAGED]
So, im probably wrong here but does that mean that if some day, 1 is being used for air ambulance, 2 are available to the military and VIP transport and probably 1 will be in maintenance (at any one time???)

Thats 2 helis to cover the country? On my word im not a swearing man, but Painted F*****g RED AND WHITE OF ALL COLOURS!! :mad:

Why cant they do something sensible like give 1 or 2 of the dauphins or allouettes (if they ARE actually to be removed from service) to the dept of health and let them refurbish and kit them out as full Dept Of Health air ambulance choppers??

Now we leave the AB139s free to do what they should be doing and remove the air ambulance role completely (except in an ATCP situ)? oh yeah... that would be "sensible"...

God knows, the dept of health swallow so much money up from the budget that they now represent the governments equivelant of a black hole in the Dail. No one there would miss the money required to update the aircraft, theyd probably forget they'd spent it.

In fact one of my theorys is that Ireland is under attack from aliens, the PC9s are really a cover up for UFO's and a localised singularity has been opened by them inside the Bank vault containing the budget, the cash just gets sucked in and spewed out into space somewhere seventy two light-years from earth and pays for the as yet undiscovered alien species health service. :rolleyes:

The DOD to the rescue.... DOD chould "loan" them a few of its number crunching civil servants to "tighten" belts and "recommend" a few "whitepapers" be drawn up, while explaining how a 2 foot long square peg really DOES go into a round hole 4 inches deep. Simple, you "make the peg round, and then shorten it to 2 inches" [/RANT MODED DISENGAGED]

Goldie fish
14th January 2005, 21:19
Morph..i think you'll find if you read again that they will probably not be painted red or white.

BTW,Gazelles have carried dpm liveries in the past for short periods,and the Hurricaines of the 40s were also painted in camo colours.

Come-quickly
14th January 2005, 23:14
Imshi pictures an airambulance picking up a critically ill child, he blinks aside his tears and his eyes widen as he realises he's sharing the cabin with an ARW assault team

gaff85
16th February 2005, 22:59
From Janes

The AB139 intermediate helicopter will be joining the UAE Armed Forces in the next few years. In a major contract award announced at the show yesterday, the US/Italian joint venture company will be supplying the 15-seat helicopter in a multirole configuration, beating strong competition from Eurocopter, which had also been shortlisted with its equivalent EC 155 B1. The contract is valued at Dhs 308m (US$83.7m).

pym
21st May 2005, 10:39
Will we be getting the run of the mill civilian version of the AB139 but painted green, or are we getting the proper military variant?

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/ab139/images/img2.jpg

Goldie fish
21st May 2005, 10:44
Sigh...

If you read the thread,you will see that we are getting the fully armed version,with air to air missiles,anti tank missiles,25mm chain gun,flir,and of course whisper mode...


READ THE THREAD

Eddie Dillon
21st May 2005, 14:30
We're getting the military version pym, I don't have the time to read 7 pages so I'm assuming that Goldie is being sarcastic, something not often seen around here...

Goldie fish
21st May 2005, 14:38
There is no military version as such. It is being equipped as per the tender,which has been discussed at length here over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

Eddie Dillon
21st May 2005, 16:05
Well yes and no....we are the First customers for the military variant,but it is similar to that due to be delivered to the USCG,though not the same.


No military variant??

Goldie fish
21st May 2005, 16:07
I thought you said you hadn't the time to read 7 pages?

Goldie fish
22nd May 2005, 17:40
http://www.agustawestland.com/products.asp

Notice the lack of the AB139 in the military range? What we are getting is a LAW ENFORCEMENT (http://www.agustawestland.com/products01_02.asp?id_appl=41&id_product=15) version.

(again we have been over the whole military/civilian thing already,over and over. Use the search function)

The Shadow
22nd May 2005, 19:15
Maybe it's my eyesight, but I can't seem to locate the rotar in the picture above.

FMolloy
22nd May 2005, 19:18
It's a mock-up, not a real heli.

pym
23rd May 2005, 06:08
http://www.agustawestland.com/products.asp

Notice the lack of the AB139 in the military range? What we are getting is a LAW ENFORCEMENT (http://www.agustawestland.com/products01_02.asp?id_appl=41&id_product=15) version.

(again we have been over the whole military/civilian thing already,over and over. Use the search function)


The reason I asked was because of this page: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/ab139/

Granted it was a "mock up" of the military variant, but I was of the understanding we were the first military customers for it....

"The AB139 military version is capable of carrying up to 15 troops or six stretchers with four medical attendants. It can be fitted with gun pods, rocket launchers and air-to-air missiles attached to two removable external supports."

I apologise for irritating you so much

pym
23rd May 2005, 07:04
Also this might be of note:http://forums.military.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/4011966761/m/21000911713

If it is to be believed it looks like the USCG wont be getting the AB-139. Its interesting to note some of the contributors werent too keen to be the launch customers.

Please dont let this turn into the Dauphin debacle.

FMolloy
23rd May 2005, 10:24
PYM,

What, exactly, do you think makes a military helicopter different from a civillian one?

The majority of things you'd expect from a military helicopter (crash-proof seating, military comms fit, weapons capability, NVG cockpit) were mentioned in the tender document. Even if they weren't it would be relatively easy to retrofit them to a 'civvy' heli.

We're not the launch customer for the AB-139, it's already in service with the Namibians & civillian customers.

pym
23rd May 2005, 10:48
FMolloy I'm sure you're the man to realise that this is in danger of veering off topic, after all the topic's not about what "I think". Although since you asked; I would have assumed that a the military variant of the AB-139 wouldve had some level of armour (i.e. Kevlar) installed to protect the pilot/troops and the aircrafts vital systems from small arms fire, something which I dont believe is on your average civilan helicopter, but I could be wrong.

A quote from http://www.ainonline.com/issues/06_01/june_01_ab139twinpg80.html :

Moreover, added Bartolotta, the military potential of the AB139 can be realized without costly additional design. “The requirements [civil and military] have merged. Today, we can achieve 90 percent of military specs without any changes. The JAR/FAR 29 civilian certification already demands self-sealing, crashworthy fuel tanks; the composite blades have inherently high ballistic tolerance; and the large sliding doors help meet the troop egress requirements,” he noted, reflecting on both European and U.S. standards.

Taken from the horses mouth as it were, that says to me that there is a difference between a civilian and military helicopter. Although whether crash proof seats + door mounted guns = that missing 10% I dont know.

I raised the question because it appears there is a military variant of the AB-139 available - and I pictured it above, the version in question can take missiles and anti-aircraft weapons - something I've yet to see on a civilan helicopter. It also looked visually different - with extra sensors placed on the front.

The Namibian helicopter is for VIP transport rather than troop transport, i.e. it is not the military version I am referring to or pictured earlier, therefore if we were in fact getting the military version we would be that types "launch customer". The same is true of the Dauphin - it was in civilian use before we purchased it.

I simply wanted to know whether this was the one we were getting, I got the answer, and now you're now asking me what I think a military helicopter is for some reason.

Aidan
23rd May 2005, 11:54
Before FMolloy has an aneurysm, I'll try and explain this simply.

For the most part, the difference between a military and civilian helicopter in this case is merely one of specification. There is no specific military variant of the AB-139, the mock up that's been posted was one created for an expo about 5 years ago, before the helicopter had ever even flown, to drum up potential military customers. It doesn't exist as an identifiable or distinct model.

The tender document specified an aircraft with a military fit, seating, comms, etc. This is what makes it, essentially, a military helicopter. Its not like some robed priest waves a wand over the thing as it rolls off the production line, and says "Kazaam, you are now a military helicopter". It is a matter of spec, fit, and useage. Some aircraft are designed and built for military use, others have militari'ness' conferred upon them by dint of fit. The Air Corps AB-139s fall into the second category.

For example, the version in question can take missiles and anti-aircraft weapons - something I've yet to see on a civilan helicopter. ... because that would be illegal. But its not exactly complicated to turn the 'civilian' helicopter into a 'military' helicopter, with a few minor spec changes. The hardpoints for mounting are on the airframe anyways, it has a databus onboard. The only complicated thing would be picking out a paint colour to make it look 'military'.

The important element of the quote you took from 'the horses mouth' is The requirements [civil and military] have merged. In other words, because of increased safety requirements for civilian helis (JAR/FAR-29), it is increasingly easy for manufacturers to market their helicopters to military customers with little or no modification.

pym
23rd May 2005, 12:09
Aidan, thanks for the post, but you really didnt need to be so condescending. I'm sure that will get me a witty response, or twenty.

As I stated previously, I asked a simple question, I just wanted to know whether we were getting a specific version. It has been cleared up.

Aidan
23rd May 2005, 12:42
you really didnt need to be so condescending

Of course I did, its my main function around here.

Goldie fish
27th June 2005, 02:16
Interesting development in the AB139 story,if you visit http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139.htm you will see the production list.
In the second column,third and fourth aircraft on order have an EI... prefix,though the customer is not listed,and the remarks are "Corporate". Further down the list are the 4 aircraft on order for the air corps,with EMS/SAR/Multirole being given as their role.

Could the first two aircraft be interim aircraft,leased from AGUSTA/Bell and placed on the Irish Civil register? Or has one of our wealthy residents decided to purchace? JP Mc Manus is pretty fond of his Bell (414 I think). I know there was no mention of interim aircraft when the Contract was signed...

DeV
13th July 2005, 15:38
AB 139:

12 utility seats (in 3 rows of 4)

10 troops seats (similar to MOWAG seats) back-to-back, with room for CEFO and patrol pack at troops feet, provision for 2 gunners/loadmasters with GPMG(SF) just behind pilots seats. 3.4m storage space for CEMO etc.

Capable of lifting 105mm artillery piece (under-slung) while carrying crew & ammunition in cabin

Roles: military transport, casevac, air ambulance, VIP/utility transport

To be delivered: 2006/7 (2 options still open)

ias
13th July 2005, 18:24
Dev, the AB139 spec above, is this official, I thought the tender stated 8 + 2 + 2, or does the 10 include 2 gunners/loadmasters (though the spec above appears to read otherwise)?

IAS

futurepilot
13th July 2005, 18:39
^ yeah, I was under the impression that it was 8 troops + 2 gunners + pilots.

DeV
13th July 2005, 18:49
I'm getting this from An Cosantoir, but presume that 2 of the troop seats are for the loadmasters/gunners

FMolloy
13th July 2005, 19:11
With crash-proof seating it will carry 8 troops & 2 door gunners.

Old Redeye
28th September 2005, 22:22
Ref the AB assembly line, I was there in 2001 getting background for an article. They were putting together AB-412's and Merlins then. Only saw the 139 prototype on the ramp and the TTH mock-up. An excellent facility with very high standards of workmanship. 139 technology is certainly first rate, resulting in superb performance - excellent return for expenditure. Should do the IAC proud. Air Corps pilots should be chomping at the bit to get into this machine and the considerably more complex mission sets that will come with it - NVG ops, SF insertion & recovery, air assaults, sling loading, FLIR aerial surveillance, deck ops on the new NS Support Ship, etc. Lucky bastards!

yooklid
28th September 2005, 23:03
Perhaps we should look for 12 139's and 4 135s as being the eventual rotary wing contingent?

Old Redeye
29th September 2005, 16:44
12 + 4 would be great, but is probably not supportable in terms of financing and personnel to man and maintain.

yooklid
29th September 2005, 19:05
12 + 4 would be great, but is probably not supportable in terms of financing and personnel to man and maintain.

Even if all other rotary airframes are retired.

12 + 4, 8 Pilatus plus the rest will surely free up man hours, training cycles etc. by not having such a disparate fleet. Perhaps that will help out?

apod
20th January 2006, 21:52
Ok we have had the light utility heli thread ,now heres the medium utility heli thread. :biggrin:
Just to get the ball rolling does anybody know when the first of the ab139s are due to be delivered ?
And who do ye think will be the first to get pictures???

eelmonster
20th January 2006, 22:36
This was easily located from http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/0/e3fdf57eed9740d680256f87004f7f98?OpenDocument:


The Minister for Defence, Mr. Willie O’Dea, T.D., has today signed a contract for the purchase of four new helicopters for the Air Corps. The four Utility AB 139 Helicopters are being acquired from the Bell Agusta Aerospace Company at a cost of €49m including VAT and will be operated by the Air Corps in a general purpose military operational and training role. Two helicopters will be delivered in 2006 and the other 2 in 2007.

Goldie fish
20th January 2006, 22:57
as joshua says etc....

AB 139 is a Utility Heli, not a Medium Utility Heli.

apod
22nd January 2006, 22:36
What did the tender say? Anyway what i was driving at was WHEN in 2006 they are due to be delivered? :smile:

Goldie fish
22nd January 2006, 23:06
http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/showthread.php?t=4897

Oh and read this one too.

http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/showthread.php?t=6647&highlight=delivery+ab139

Its amazing what the S***** F******* will do

They expect the first 2 in autumn this year and the second 2 summer 2007.I assume a decision will be made at that stage whether or not to exercise the option for a further 2.
http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139.htm

andy
23rd January 2006, 12:18
as joshua says etc....

AB 139 is a Utility Heli, not a Medium Utility Heli.

I agree also. We have some Utility heli's and some training heli's. The DF could do with some medium/heavy lift heli's like the Merlin.

ODIN
23rd January 2006, 12:33
Give it time andy

happenin
23rd January 2006, 12:41
I agree also. We have some Utility heli's and some training heli's. The DF could do with some medium/heavy lift heli's like the Merlin.

Don't forget the fighter jets andy

andy
23rd January 2006, 12:50
I didnt back the fighter jets proposal ;)

Still I wouldnt say No to some Saab Gripens or Eurofighter to meet our international obligations

Time for another "we need jets thread ?" :tongue: :tongue:

ODIN
23rd January 2006, 13:25
Do you want the mods to lay an egg?!?All that work in joing a thread to an older thread!!!lets stick to topic. Does anybody have the picture of the proposed paint scheme for the AB139's

Vmax
23rd January 2006, 14:09
I agree also. We have some Utility heli's and some training heli's. The DF could do with some medium/heavy lift heli's like the Merlin.

While talking about utility heli's would someone like to give reasons for and against the purchase of aircraft the size of Merlins, and how they could be utilised by the Aer Corp to their fullest capabilities on a daily basis bearing in mind the 139's are on the way.

apod
23rd January 2006, 19:27
mea culpa

andy
23rd January 2006, 20:46
i was only joking about the jets.

About the medium lift helis well... it would give the aircorps a major increase capability and be able to move a decent amount of soliders around the place. It would also mean we could provide a back up to SAR and help in any situation if need be. Medium lift heli's would be a god send for Irish soliders overseas and they could be deployed there too. Even though the white paper on defence contradicts this.

Goldie fish
23rd January 2006, 20:50
Do you want the mods to lay an egg?!?All that work in joing a thread to an older thread!!!lets stick to topic. Does anybody have the picture of the proposed paint scheme for the AB139's

Look for a thread with the title "New helis: what colour" or something like that...

GREEN!

does nobody use the search function any more?

Slacker
23rd January 2006, 21:21
Goldie, what about modellers?

They need to know what shade of green to order for their decals......

eelmonster
23rd January 2006, 21:30
ab-139 decal (proposed):

ARNGScout
23rd January 2006, 22:57
Proposed by who a sever year old with a box of crayons? Bang up art work there!

Turkey
24th January 2006, 01:23
The AB-139 livery will be much the same as the EC-135's

tomas_hamilton
24th January 2006, 09:31
can anyone give me the correct Gunge or Humbrol paint number for the Aer Corps EC-135.Also I am doing a couple of PC-9s in 1/48 are they the same as the grey Pomie Hawks

hptmurphy
24th January 2006, 22:57
Unknown yet...but will do research...

Anyway...it has been reported that CHC Scotia are taking over the UK coast guard role in 2007...anyone like to hazard a guess on the machines they are going to operate...?


S92s...alongside AB139s..touch of irony don't you think.

This was posted in a UK shipping magazine this week.

Vmax
25th January 2006, 17:59
Unknown yet...but will do research...

Anyway...it has been reported that CHC Scotia are taking over the UK coast guard role in 2007...anyone like to hazard a guess on the machines they are going to operate...?


S92s...alongside AB139s..touch of irony don't you think.

This was posted in a UK shipping magazine this week.


Expect to see the same here at some stage. :wink:

pym
3rd February 2006, 18:11
Very interesting article from Janes on franks board. Of most note to me was that the decision on the two 139's on option, has to be taken by the end of 2006. The first two aircraft will come on stream in the august timeframe, and the next will arrive in early 2007. This doesnt leave a lot of time for assessment, hopefully it was just some form of inducement by the DF for Augusta to get the Aircraft delivered quickly and once that happens they'll place the order for the two options. Although part of me shudders to think they either wont exercise it or only buy one further example. Either way, if an order is placed this year it'll be 2008 before the 5th and 6th 139's would come into service.

Goldie fish
3rd February 2006, 21:38
http://www.irishairpics.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=1;t=1101;view=new

Visit Franks board...

andy
4th February 2006, 11:41
good job Goldie :wink: .


Options on a further two AB139s need to be exercised before the end of 2006 to secure the contracted pricing. Should this occur, delivery would be expected in 2008.

Whats the odds of the DF actually exercising the option for 2 further aircraft in time and saving itself a few quid :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Better luck with the Euro Millions

Trooper 3*
5th February 2006, 23:19
`harsh. nice paint job eelmaster. the said thing is that they prob wont look as good

Goldie fish
10th February 2006, 21:13
It seems JP Mc Manus has gone and ordered an AB139(or 2) for himself too. Thats handy if we need spares....
Handy for him too I'm sure..
http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139.htm

Aidan
15th February 2006, 15:39
This page ... http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139.htm has 6 Ab-139s down for the Ac, including the two on option. However, they've also recently added two new serial no (280 and 281) to their list.

Is this just a guess on their part, or has there been some form of announcement that we've missed?

Goldie fish
15th February 2006, 22:13
You missed it here....http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/showpost.php?p=113319&postcount=39

hptmurphy
15th February 2006, 22:52
Or will it be the other way round...either way the tax payer is paying for all the machines

Aidan
16th February 2006, 10:44
D'oh, etc.

Thanks Goldie

Goldie fish
11th August 2006, 21:12
http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=1


The first of four AgustaWestland AW139 helicopters for the Irish Air Corps was handed over by Mr. Bruno Spagnolini, AgustaWestland’s Managing Director to Brigadier General James, General Officer Commanding, Irish Air Corps, in the presence of Major General Pat Nash, Deputy Chief of Staff (Operations), Irish Defence Forces, at Vergiate in Italy on August 10th. This handover also marks the first delivery of an AW139 to a military customer

http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Irish274-2.jpg



http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Irish274.jpg

Goldie fish
11th August 2006, 21:23
Air Corps Receive first AW139 helicopter

The Minister for Defence Mr. Willie O’Dea is pleased to announce that the first of four AW139 helicopters ordered for the Irish Air Corps was accepted from Agusta Westland at Vergiate near Milan, Italy earlier today.


Air Corps pilots have now commenced training on the AW139 in Italy. Training will continue until late October when the second helicopter will be ready for acceptance trials. Following acceptance of the second helicopter, both AW 139 helicopters will be scheduled to arrive in Baldonnel in mid-November 2006.

The Air Corps will use the aircraft for a range of duties including transport of special operation units of the Defence Forces, air ambulance, overland search and rescue and VIP transport.


The AW139 utility helicopter was selected by the Department of Defence in December 2004 following a tender competition. In January 2005, Minister O’Dea signed a contract for the purchase of the 4 AW 139 helicopters at a cost of €48.4m, inclusive of VAT. The four helicopters are being built at the Agusta facility near Milan, Italy.


The AW139 is powered by two Pratt & Whitney PT6C-67C engines. The helicopter has a large unobstructed cabin with sliding doors which allows for easy access and egress for troops and equipment. In the cockpit the aircrew have a fully integrated digital avionics and cockpit display system, which includes a duplex autopilot, flight management system with GPS and a radio navigation system.


ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

A total of 6 helicopters are being purchased for the Air Corps at an overall cost of €60m approx. 2 Light Utility EC135 helicopters have already been supplied by Eurocopter SAS and are in operational service.

AgustaWestland are supplying 4 AW139 Utility Helicopters, two of which will arrive in Baldonnel in November. The other two will be delivered in the first six months of 2007.

The four utility helicopters will be operated by the Air Corps in general purpose military operational and training roles. Primary taskings will include training and operations with Special Forces, security and aid to the civil power, military exercises, infantry interoperability training and limited troop transport. They will also be used to perform air ambulance, inland Search and Rescue, aid to the civil community and VIP transport tasks.

http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/Release+ID/77B5505A10BB1797802571C7004FFAB9?OpenDocument

mutter nutter
11th August 2006, 21:59
http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=1



http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Irish274-2.jpg



http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Irish274.jpg


beautiful:cool: , but what's with the yellow outlines on the windows?

Goldie fish
11th August 2006, 22:03
They are Pop out windows, for removal in an emergency. It doesn't matter what colour the heli is, they all have these. The Puma had it around the door if I recall correctly

mutter nutter
11th August 2006, 22:07
They are Pop out windows, for removal in an emergency. It doesn't matter what colour the heli is, they all have these. The Puma had it around the door if I recall correctly

right, I just never noticed before, I guess the green make's them stand out more, thank's GF

Goldie fish
11th August 2006, 22:37
Sometimes the door pops out rather than the plexiglass.
http://www.rob.clubkawasaki.com/jas3474.jpg
Sometimes the line is a subdued colour. It doesn't really effect camoflage in flight, as the shine from the plexi cancels it out...

mutter nutter
11th August 2006, 22:48
http://www.flyinginirelandmagazine.com/photo/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Irish274.jpg

what's that orange protrusion just before the tail boom?...it doesn't seem to be on other AB139's

Goldie fish
11th August 2006, 22:52
Its on some of the others. I Know CHCs models have them. Possibly something to do with the flotation gear?

http://www.dgualdo.it/helics-phieh-mdb-001.htm

mutter nutter
11th August 2006, 23:10
Its on some of the others. I Know CHCs models have them. Possibly something to do with the flotation gear?

http://www.dgualdo.it/helics-phieh-mdb-001.htm

could it be a rescue beacon?, you know if the heli went down in th ocean, it would detach and float on the surface to mark the spot and send out a distress signal automatically, might also explain the bright orange colour.

client
12th August 2006, 10:40
"but what's with the yellow outlines on the windows?"

I think this was only for production and should not be on machines when delivered.

pym
13th August 2006, 13:01
Looks like AW held up their end of the bargain on the time of delivery, let's hope the two on option are ordered before the offer runs out.

Saracen
13th August 2006, 13:31
Looks like AW held up their end of the bargain on the time of delivery, let's hope the two on option are ordered before the offer runs out.

Whats the point when the fly boys won't use them to the full extent of their specification. They won't fly them at night (even without NVG which they have) and the medium choppers won't carry underslung loads unless they're under 300kg. You might as well carry that in the cabin of the aircraft. I can tell you I'm not too impressed with them sic(AC).

Goldie fish
13th August 2006, 23:16
Why won't they carry more than 300kg underslung?

Saracen
14th August 2006, 02:30
Its "unsafe" because they haven't the necessary experience or training despite the RAF running training courses in Baldonnel. The new AW's were bought for the lift capability, they can carry a 105 underslung, well within limits. It's embarrassing watching civvies using aircraft to their potential. Irish Lights pilots carry underslung loads to the lighthouses of over 500kgs on smaller choppers and the SAR boys operate in all weather/night etc. aren't the civvies supposed to be looking at the AC and think "I'd love to be able to do that" instead of the other way round?
TBH I don't blame the aircrews. Operational parameters come from the top but ever since the tragedy of the Dauphin in Wexford they've stepped too far back into the comfort zone. They have ceased to be an effective support corps for operational units of the army. Don't get me wrong, they do a hell of a lot of good work but there civvies who doing it just as good.

Vmax
14th August 2006, 10:37
"but what's with the yellow outlines on the windows?"

I think this was only for production and should not be on machines when delivered.

The orange marking around the windows are there to identify the emergency exits and will be permanent as I understand it. The orange frisbee type object to the rear of the heli is an Emergency Locator Transmitter.

FMolloy
14th August 2006, 12:04
Its "unsafe" because they haven't the necessary experience or training despite the RAF running training courses in Baldonnel. The new AW's were bought for the lift capability, they can carry a 105 underslung, well within limits. It's embarrassing watching civvies using aircraft to their potential. Irish Lights pilots carry underslung loads to the lighthouses of over 500kgs on smaller choppers and the SAR boys operate in all weather/night etc. aren't the civvies supposed to be looking at the AC and think "I'd love to be able to do that" instead of the other way round?

Do you want to give the AC a chance to actually use the helis before dissing them?


Don't get me wrong, they do a hell of a lot of good work but there civvies who doing it just as good.

What civvies are doing army co-op?

Saracen
14th August 2006, 13:30
If you read the post you'll see what i mean about the civvies. As for the helis, they have been here for about 6 months. As for heli ops, ask the wing, artillery and infantry just how much assistance they get from the fly boys. You'll find a common thread of thought about the AC. Like I said top down, they're just grunts at the end of the day, they do what they're told.

FMolloy
14th August 2006, 13:39
If you read the post you'll see what i mean about the civvies.

No I don't see what load the Irish lights heli is lifting has to do with the price of cabbage. It might be relevent if the AC were actually operating the new helis, but they're not so there's no way of comparing one to the other.

You've said that the AC won't be flying at night & won't be carrying anything over 300kg, where are you getting this info from? No one else, including the AC contributors to this board, has mentioned this before.


As for the helis, they have been here for about 6 months.

What in the name of God are you talking about? The AB139's are only being delivered now.


As for heli ops, ask the wing, artillery and infantry just how much assistance they get from the fly boys.

With the exception of artillery (the AC only had one heli capable of helping the artillery & even then only briefly) they've been getting a lot more since SAR went civillian, and this will be increased with the new arrivals.


You'll find a common thread of thought about the AC. Like I said top down, they're just grunts at the end of the day, they do what they're told.

Do you want to rephrase that so it makes sense?

mutter nutter
14th August 2006, 15:30
The orange marking around the windows are there to identify the emergency exits and will be permanent as I understand it. The orange frisbee type object to the rear of the heli is an Emergency Locator Transmitter.

thought so, thank's VMAX

The Blue Max
14th August 2006, 19:39
Its was quoted in the indo article about "the new AW139 that has capabaility to be armed with Two x FN GPMG Machine Gunsaswell as other weapons"

Does anybody what other types of weapons the aircraft are able/wired to carry?

Are refering like of 12.7mm HMG Gun Pods or rocket pods etc??

Saracen
15th August 2006, 04:41
F Molloy, firstly, the purpose of the post was to highlight the growing frustration with some aspects of the Air Corp, not to piss people off. I apologise for that.

Second, I'm sorry for not being clearer in my posts but I'm working and can only view the site for five or ten minutes at time so I'm rushing.

Flight operation parameters are determined by senior officers so I'm not ragging on the pilots.

Comparing civvies is valid because they conduct the flight operations with underslung loads and night time flights.
.
Before delivery of any aircraft, personnel are sent on conversion/familarisation courses.

The RAF were in Baldonnel two months ago running a training course on underslung loads. After the training was completed the AC were asked to do some runs with underslung loads. The most they would fly with was 300kg in which case they were told don't bother.

In a recent exercise the AC were asked would they do a night time extraction involving simulated medivac and hostage rescue. The answer was no.

Ask the ack ack boys what they think of the target towing provided by the AC. I hear its so bad they're looking at a civilian contractor.

Now I could go on but I won't. I know the AC perform a hell of a lot of work that is generally unseen (and unappreciated) but in the main are seen as been generally unco-operative when it comes to military ops/exercises.

I speak from personal experience. I hope that answers your questions.

Goldie fish
15th August 2006, 05:04
The RAF were in Baldonnel two months ago running a training course on underslung loads. After the training was completed the AC were asked to do some runs with underslung loads. The most they would fly with was 300kg in which case they were told don't bother.
The most any of the air corps aircraft can carry underslung, prior to the arrival of the AW139, is 500kg(with the EC135). 300kg, underslung from a new aircraft whose max underslung is 500kg in my opinion is pretty reasonable.


In a recent exercise the AC were asked would they do a night time extraction involving simulated medivac and hostage rescue. The answer was no.
Had they trained for a night extraction and hostage rescue, or was it just landed on their lap at the beginning of the ex? Night flying is a capability that takes a lot of training. It is only this year that I have heard of AC crews participating in training for "combat" night flying. Its something you don't want to risk a nearly new aircraft on, unless you have the crew fully trained. Allouettes are not capable of flying at Night.


Ask the ack ack boys what they think of the target towing provided by the AC. I hear its so bad they're looking at a civilian contractor.
This is not the Air Corps fault. This is the fault of the aircraft. The cessna is completely unsuitable for the job. Being based in Baldonnell doesn't help either. The Gear for hauling the drogue causes serious wear and tear on the airframe, and all other equipment must be stripped out beforehand.


Now I could go on but I won't. I know the AC perform a hell of a lot of work that is generally unseen (and unappreciated) but in the main are seen as been generally unco-operative when it comes to military ops/exercises.

I speak from personal experience. I hope that answers your questions.

I have lost count of the number of RDF courses that I have seen photos from in recent times that didnt have Air Corps helis teaching troops about heliops. Given the reluctance of the PDF for the most part to allow the RDF train in their shiney new equipment, the Air Corps have been fantastic in making aircraft available to train on. Perhaps your experience is dated?

Saracen
15th August 2006, 07:47
Fair point, but I doubt that two months is dated.

The EC-135 MTOW "notional" external load is 1500kg. 20% is a very low lift factor.

The Night Ex in question, as I wasn't the SO3 involved so I don't know what tasking was given to the AC, I just know that there was a lot of unhappy bunnies when the answer came back.

I appreciate Night flying requires a lot of training. The AC is a military organisation.

As for other units experience with the PDF/AC, I can't comment. I can only make the points based on my experiences this year.

Vmax
15th August 2006, 09:30
Give them time and i'm sure they will provide the service required of them.These type of operations are quite complex in nature, something the aer corp probobly hasn't done for some time, I'm sure some crew members are still getting use to their new heli's.You have to learn to walk before you can run.

FMolloy
15th August 2006, 11:22
The skills being asked of the AC's helicopter pilots cannot just appear overnight, they've got to get used to the new aircraft before they can use them to their full potential. AC pilots want this as much as anyone, have a look for recent posts from Scorpy & this is obvious.

Like I said, give them a chance before dissing them.

Barry
15th August 2006, 13:32
What is the maximum load that can be slung under an AB139/AW139?

Saracen
15th August 2006, 14:04
MTOW is 2778kg but as any pilot will tell you they will never be close to that.
AW 139 should be capable of lifting the 105mm light artillery gun, 1858kg, plus crew and ammo.
I believe this was one of the criteria in selecting this type of helicopter.

Goldie fish
18th August 2006, 19:21
The criteria (not like they were buried under 2 years of posts or anything)


22. External Load Lifting Equipment

The helicopter must be capable of being fitted with an external load lifting system and should be capable of lifting a minimum external load of 1000 kgs. Such an external load lifting system must be part of the tendered helicopter package. Weights of fixed provisions required for this system must be provided in the tender response.




http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/showpost.php?p=61975&postcount=3

DeV
19th August 2006, 16:50
MTOW is 2778kg but as any pilot will tell you they will never be close to that.
AW 139 should be capable of lifting the 105mm light artillery gun, 1858kg, plus crew and ammo.
I believe this was one of the criteria in selecting this type of helicopter.

It said it was able to in An Cosantoir

GoneToTheCanner
19th August 2006, 17:38
Hi all
A lot of noise is being made here about what can or cannot fly at night or what can or cannot be lifted....Alouettes can fly at night, perfectly well, as the aircraft is unable to tell the time of day. Alouettes cannot fly in conditions of known icing, especially not at night and are not equipped for flight in Instrument conditions. the instruments on the Alouette's panel are not NVG-compatible. The EC and AWs, on the other hand, are fully IFR-capable but, like many,many other helicopters, are not allowed to fly in potential icing conditions because they do not have de-icing/anti-icing equipment on their rotor blades.A helicopter with ice on it's rotors is doomed, therefore helicopter pilots do not fly in such conditions.That's not an Air Corps limitation, it's a world-wide limitation.... As for the request for a night extraction exercise, if it was ad-hoc and unplanned and the route in and out was unfamiliar, forget it. No heli pilot would risk it.... As for civvie load-lifting, you'll find that they strip out the seats,etc and fly with minimum fuel for the job. Incidentally, the Alouettes were used to carry the 120mm mortar. How much do they weigh?. I'd give the AW crews a bit more time to get familiar with their aircraft before risking them on heavy loads...as regards the target-tugging, give the Donners a more powerful aircraft or else hire in civvies. The 172 was always limited and the pilots hated it's sluggish behaviour with the drogue equipment aboard.....I agree that there are many things that civvies do better than the military and that the military are slow to learn, but it cuts across all Services. If you want to waste your breath, I suggest you try bringing civvie ideas into the DF. Unless you're an Officer and you can absolutely prove that it will save money, you haven't a prayer.
regards
GttC

andy
20th August 2006, 14:48
Its was quoted in the indo article about "the new AW139 that has capabaility to be armed with Two x FN GPMG Machine Gunsaswell as other weapons"

Does anybody what other types of weapons the aircraft are able/wired to carry?

Are refering like of 12.7mm HMG Gun Pods or rocket pods etc??


The helicopter should be armed with two crew operated mini guns. A GPMG is not sufficent

Goldie fish
20th August 2006, 15:20
Dunno about that, a GPMG can lay down a heavy layer of fire if necessary. A Minigun creates extra load on the aircrafts electrical system.

FMolloy
20th August 2006, 16:18
The helicopter should be armed with two crew operated mini guns. A GPMG is not sufficient

What are you basing this on? GPMG's are used as door guns the world over, where have they been found to be insufficient?

andy
20th August 2006, 20:21
GPMG was standard in the Vietnam war but things have moved on a lot since. All blackhawks use miniguns AFAIK. Its standard equipment.

these new helis should be capable of operating two.

Goldie fish
20th August 2006, 20:23
For what? These Helis will not be deployed overseas. The ability to mount Machine guns are purely a realistic training aid.

Gasplug
20th August 2006, 21:21
The helicopter should be armed with two crew operated mini guns. A GPMG is not sufficent


What are you basing this on? GPMG's are used as door guns the world over, where have they been found to be insufficient?

Andy is a military expert ya know, as we experienced with the split thread on our spanish friends! sorry for going off topic!:wink:

Sandbag
20th August 2006, 21:41
edited

Goldie fish
20th August 2006, 22:48
Andy is a military expert ya know, as we experienced with the split thread on our spanish friends! sorry for going off topic!:wink:

Glasshouses, throwing stones from within same etc.

Goldie fish
20th August 2006, 22:52
Air Corps Receive first AW139 helicopter

The Minister for Defence Mr. Willie O’Dea is pleased to announce that the first of four AW139 helicopters ordered for the Irish Air Corps was accepted from Agusta Westland at Vergiate near Milan, Italy earlier today.



The four utility helicopters will be operated by the Air Corps in general purpose military operational and training roles. Primary taskings will include training and operations with Special Forces, security and aid to the civil power, military exercises, infantry interoperability training and limited troop transport. They will also be used to perform air ambulance, inland Search and Rescue, aid to the civil community and VIP transport tasks.

http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/Release+ID/77B5505A10BB1797802571C7004FFAB9?OpenDocument


Thats how I know.

andy
20th August 2006, 22:52
Andy is a military expert ya know, as we experienced with the split thread on our spanish friends! sorry for going off topic!:wink:

I was just pointing out the number of failed military operations relating to Spain.

FMolloy
21st August 2006, 00:35
Colombian door gunner:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~fiachramolloy/colombia.jpg

Israeli door gunners:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~fiachramolloy/female.jpghttp://homepage.eircom.net/~fiachramolloy/Heliborne_Negev_2.jpg

British Army Air Corp Lynx (with Aussie pilot who was on exchange):
http://homepage.eircom.net/~fiachramolloy/lynx.jpg

Australian Navy door gunner:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~fiachramolloy/seahawk.jpg

Here's several forces who are operating in much more dangerous environments than the Air Corp will be (any time soon anyway) who feel that a standard MG is good enough for their door gunners.

Just because it looks cool doesn't mean we need them.

apod
21st August 2006, 11:08
I think the air corps have ambitions to seve overseas but afaik i would require a policy change.Wasnt there a link to an interview with Goc Air corps where he stated that posted here recently.:confused:

Bam Bam
21st August 2006, 18:52
The governments not going to risk their shiny new helicopters overseas, the are much to valuable.

Itchy
23rd August 2006, 18:18
Not sure if this was posted already...
Irish Air Corps Receive Their First AW139

The first of four AgustaWestland AW139 helicopters for the Irish Air Corps was handed over by Mr. Bruno Spagnolini, AgustaWestland’s Managing Director to Brigadier General James, General Officer Commanding, Irish Air Corps, in the presence of Major General Pat Nash, Deputy Chief of Staff (Operations), Irish Defence Forces, at Vergiate in Italy yesterday. This handover also marks the first delivery of an AW139 to a military customer.


http://www.agustawestland.com/dinimg/grande%20Inflight_05.JPG
Flying training of Air Corps pilots will now start and will continue until late October, when the second helicopter will be handed over.The AW139 helicopters for the Irish Air Corps are equipped with a range of role equipment including AM/FM tactical radios, a Forward Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) camera with a fifth cockpit LCD mission display. In the cabin the aircraft can be quickly reconfigured from the troop transport role with ten crashworthy troop seats to the medical evacuation role with air ambulance equipment plus seats for attendants. Additional role equipment includes abseiling and fast rope systems as well as a dual machine gun installation. The AW139 was selected by the Irish Department of Defence in December 2004, after a full evaluation of the aircraft against several competitors. Soon after a contract was signed for four aircraft plus two options. The Irish Air Corps will use the aircraft for a range of duties including transport of special operation units of the Defence Forces, air ambulance, overland search and rescue and VIP transport.


The AW139 is powered by two Pratt & Whitney PT6C-67C engines each rated at 1679 shp for take-off, giving the aircraft class leading hot and high performance as well as unmatched single engine safety. The large unobstructed 8 m3 cabin with large sliding doors allows easy access and egress for troops and equipment. In the cockpit the aircrew have a fully integrated digital avionics and cockpit display system, which includes a duplex autopilot, flight management system with GPS and a radio navigation system. Over 190 AW139 helicopter have been ordered by mid-2006 making it the best selling helicopter in the medium twin class. Over 40 aircraft have now been delivered to customers in Europe, Asia, Africa, North America and the Middle East.

http://www.agustawestland.com/communication_det.asp?id_news=259&yy=2006

ODIN
23rd August 2006, 18:40
There is the dirty VIP transport word again

Stinger
27th August 2006, 17:49
I still think they should refit one or two of the dauphins for VIP transport. That'd solve the problem

Turkey
27th August 2006, 20:34
No, they should given transport suitable for their level of competence. Are kiddies tricycles still available?

Aidan
28th August 2006, 15:34
Flight International have an article on the AB-139s this week - nothing new apart from a quote (from Ralph James) to the effect that the next priority for the Air Corps was the replacement of the Cessna's, contenders including the Caravan and Pc-6, along with the obligatory nod towards airlift capacity.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/08/22/Navigation/190/208562/Ireland+gets+first+AW139.html

Goldie fish
28th August 2006, 20:40
Did he mention "Strategic airlift"???

Vmax
28th August 2006, 21:30
Ireland gets first AW139
By Craig Hoyle
The Irish Air Corps has begun training on the AgustaWestland AW139 utility helicopter, after accepting its first of four examples in Italy on 11 August. The service expects to receive its second example in late October, with the medium twins - the first AW139s to enter military service - to arrive at its Baldonnel site in mid-November before starting operational activities before year-end.

The air corps will also take delivery of two Eurocopter EC135 light utility helicopters next year under an approximately €60 million ($77 million) rotorcraft transformation deal announced in December 2004.

The service's next procurement priority will be to acquire a replacement for its Cessna 172 special mission aircraft to conduct tasks including target-towing and parachute training, says commanding officer Brig Gen Ralph James. Aircraft such as the Cessna Caravan and Pilatus PC-6 could potentially be suitable for the requirement, he says. Ireland is also becoming increasingly interested in gaining access to strategic airlift to support its international peacekeeping activities, he says.

This article was written for flight international 22/08/06,they might have their wires crossed in relation to EC 135's in the second paragraph or have two more been ordered

DeV
28th August 2006, 22:39
I've said it before I'll say it again, either the Caravan or the PC-6 meet the requirements - "twin-engined" (from the Special Report which recommended the Defender).

tonyrdf
29th August 2006, 20:42
GPMG was standard in the Vietnam war but things have moved on a lot since. All blackhawks use miniguns AFAIK. Its standard equipment.

these new helis should be capable of operating two.

AFAIK only MH-60s and HH-60s used for special ops and CSAR use miniguns, the standard UH-60s still mount M-240s(GPMGs) as their defensive weapon.

FMolloy
29th September 2006, 17:58
Article from this month's issue of Connect:


274 Clear to Land

On August 11th, the Air Corp flew the first of four new AB139 utility helicopters due for delivery in November 2006 and spring 2007. The Helicopter, call sign 274, was handed over to Air Corp personnel in Milan, Italy, where they are undergoing flight and technical training in the Augusta training centre over the next few weeks, before they are flown home.

The Agusta Bell aircraft once fully deployed will be used in a variety of roles that will include troop carrying (seats for up to 12 troops), air ambulance and inland search and rescue. The helicopters will be equipped with a cargo sling that can carry a 105mm light gun, rescue hoist, two machine guns, abseiling/fast roping kit, night vision goggles capability, forward-looking infra-red camera provisions, and medvac/air ambulance kits.

People will be relieved to know that there is no sign of orange on the aircraft in the pic that accompanies the article.

FMolloy
29th September 2006, 18:19
According to a post by Scorpy on Frank's board (http://www.irishairpics.com/board.html), the AC's gotten around 80 sets of body armour and survival vests. I'll go out on a limb and say at least some of that is for the heli crews.

mutter nutter
29th September 2006, 20:45
forward-looking infra-red camera provisions

is the FLIR actually fitted, or is it something the AC have and can fit them when needed?


According to a post by Scorpy on Frank's board (http://www.irishairpics.com/board.html), the AC's gotten around 80 sets of body armour and survival vests. I'll go out on a limb and say at least some of that is for the heli crews.

well they wouldn't be getting BA and such,if they were not going to use them right, it's not just for pottering about in Ireland?

FMolloy
29th September 2006, 21:01
I'd say they've gotten the vests & armour so the crews can get used to operating while wearing them.

Turkey
6th November 2006, 19:03
Latest word that has floated down from on high is that the first 2 AW139's will arrive on friday the 17th of november......

Vmax
6th November 2006, 21:14
Latesr rumour. I have heard that as of from the new year, one of the 139's is going to be providing 24 hr air ambulance cover to the health executive.

Boomer
6th November 2006, 21:59
Latesr rumour. I have heard that as of from the new year, one of the 139's is going to be providing 24 hr air ambulance cover to the health executive.


Not something that was mentioned at the Air Ambulance Briefing I was at over the weekend, however it was mentioned that the 139's would improve capability.

DeV
6th November 2006, 22:00
So in order words 4 + options for 2 have been purchased - allowing for 1 in maintenance the AC will actually have 2.

Boomer
6th November 2006, 22:01
Not something that was mentioned at the Air Ambulance Briefing I was at over the weekend, however it was mentioned that the 139's would improve capability.

Oh and The briefing specifically stated that the Air Corps does not and will not provide a HEMS system under the current agreement....

Vmax
7th November 2006, 09:58
Interesting Boomer! That would make sence in relation to HEMS. By the way, as I understand it, If the corp are going with the option for the extra two heli's, I believe that decision has to be made by December at the latest.

Spook
7th November 2006, 10:38
Why would the 139 be used to provide HEMS when the one of the EC135's is equipped with a medi fit. Would the 139 be a bit of overkill for HEMS (no pun intended)in anything other than a major incident,its capacity would not be needed in day to day operations.
Well thats just my 2c's worth. :cool:

Boomer
7th November 2006, 11:52
Why would the 139 be used to provide HEMS when the one of the EC135's is equipped with a medi fit. Would the 139 be a bit of overkill for HEMS (no pun intended)in anything other than a major incident,its capacity would not be needed in day to day operations.
Well thats just my 2c's worth. :cool:

The EC135s are not permanently fitted with the Air Ambulance kit which takes 45 minutes to fit.

Vmax
7th November 2006, 11:58
Spook you might have misread boomers last thread, he said that the Aer corp will not be providing HEMS.

Boomer
7th November 2006, 13:46
Spook you might have misread boomers last thread, he said that the Aer corp will not be providing HEMS.

Vmax I said under the current agreement, it wasnt mentioned when the agreement runs out or if it would be renegotiated with the arrival of the 139s....

Vmax
7th November 2006, 15:12
Boomer,

I take you point. But as I understand it HEMS cannot be carried out by the aircorp full stop. They might be able to do something similar under a different name but at the end of the day they operate under military rules, that is where the problem lies. It's a bit like a military ambulance or green godess turning up at a RTA or house fire, 99% of the time it doesn't happen, there can be problems with civilians been transported in military aircraft, insurance been one. The definition of HEMS can be found in the JAA(joint aviation authority) rules and regulations, HEMS taskings /operations are carried out by civil operators under the guidence found within JAR OPS 3, civies also have to have substancial public liability insurance, something the military doesn't provide. As I understand it God forbid, civie operator has an accident, insurance covers it. Military have the same accident you sue the state, correct me if i'm wrong. The HSE might have some issues with it as well but thats way above my pay scale. By the way if its a national emergency everything goes out the window.:biggrin:

Boomer I don't want this taken up the wrong way, I'm just throwing this one out to the forum. I noticed you said that it takes 45 mins to kit the 135 to air ambulance fit. Now I know everthing has its limitations but in that same time a coast guard heli from any of the four bases which are well positioned around the country and which are on 15 min standby during the day if availible would be at any hospital in their immediate area within 30 minutes. That's well before the 135 even lifts from the Don.

I'm just wondering are the corp going down the same road as before been neither purely military or civie when it comes to heli ops. I will give you a scenario ambulance control ring up the Don "Hello, have you a 135 or 139 availible for air ambulance today"?, "eh no, not taday, because its down for maintainence, or its in the Curragh with the rangers, or its doing a photo shoot, or its flying a VIP. Are they going to be a jack of all trades and master of none. It's probably one of the reasons why the coast guard now have four bases! Anbody any thoughts?:confused:

Boomer
7th November 2006, 16:12
Boomer,

I take you point. But as I understand it HEMS cannot be carried out by the aircorp full stop. They might be able to do something similar under a different name but at the end of the day they operate under military rules, that is where the problem lies.

Its not something similar at all, its called inter-facility transfer, my understanding is that it is a rare time that it is urgent so the 45 minutes kit out time isnt an issue. It would only be an issue in a major emergency. And on that matter does anyone know how many kits are available, one or two?


It's a bit like a military ambulance or green godess turning up at a RTA or house fire, 99% of the time it doesn't happen, there can be problems with civilians been transported in military aircraft, insurance been one.

It is my understanding that the Army Ambulances at Curragh Camp occasionally help out in the area around the camp, I dont know how often or for what type of assistance.


The definition of HEMS can be found in the JAA(joint aviation authority) rules and regulations, HEMS taskings /operations are carried out by civil operators under the guidence found within JAR OPS 3, civies also have to have substancial public liability insurance, something the military doesn't provide. As I understand it God forbid, civie operator has an accident, insurance covers it. Military have the same accident you sue the state, correct me if i'm wrong. The HSE might have some issues with it as well but thats way above my pay scale. By the way if its a national emergency everything goes out the window.:biggrin:

True most HEMS systems that I have heard of are Civillian based.


Boomer I don't want this taken up the wrong way, I'm just throwing this one out to the forum. I noticed you said that it takes 45 mins to kit the 135 to air ambulance fit. Now I know everthing has its limitations but in that same time a coast guard heli from any of the four bases which are well positioned around the country and which are on 15 min standby during the day if availible would be at any hospital in their immediate area within 30 minutes. That's well before the 135 even lifts from the Don.

The problem with the Coast Guard Helicopters is their size, there are very few places that they can land, even more so if they go with helipads on top of hospitals which has been mentioned regarding the mater in the HEMS report.


I'm just wondering are the corp going down the same road as before been neither purely military or civie when it comes to heli ops. I will give you a scenario ambulance control ring up the Don "Hello, have you a 135 or 139 availible for air ambulance today"?, "eh no, not taday, because its down for maintainence, or its in the Curragh with the rangers, or its doing a photo shoot, or its flying a VIP. Are they going to be a jack of all trades and master of none. It's probably one of the reasons why the coast guard now have four bases! Anbody any thoughts?:confused:

This already happens :smile:

Vmax
7th November 2006, 20:03
Thanks for the reply Boomer, so air ambulance and hospital transfer it is.


The problem with the Coast Guard Helicopters is their size, there are very few places that they can land, even more so if they go with helipads on top of hospitals which has been mentioned regarding the mater in the HEMS report.

I agree the coast guard helis are large but thay can land at any hospital pad( that hasn't been condemed due to building muti storey car parks and the like in the vicinity!!!) the 135's land at, they have been doing it for years!!!

The proposed elevated helipad at the Mater hospital will have a weight limit that excludes a 61 landing on it. A 139 is as big as it will take, something the coast guard might want to keep in mind when they go on the hunt for new heli's.:wink:

Boomer
7th November 2006, 20:15
Thanks for the reply Boomer, so air ambulance and hospital transfer it is.

I agree the coast guard helis are large but thay can land at any hospital pad( that hasn't been condemed due to building muti storey car parks and the like in the vicinity!!!) the 135's land at, they have been doing it for years!!!

The proposed elevated helipad at the Mater hospital will have a weight limit that excludes a 61 landing on it. A 139 is as big as it will take, something the coast guard might want to keep in mind when they go on the hunt for new heli's.:wink:

I recall from the briefing over the weekend that the number of heli pads at hospitals is a tad on the low site to be next to non existant in many places (iirc they can be counted on the fingers of one hand.) Once the slides are available online i will have the exact number.

Vmax
7th November 2006, 21:50
I recall from the briefing over the weekend that the number of heli pads at hospitals is a tad on the low site to be next to non existant in many places (iirc they can be counted on the fingers of one hand.) Once the slides are available online i will have the exact number.

You have raised a very interesting point Boomer. It will indeed be interesting to see how many pads are in fact operational, keep us posted.

Dogwatch
7th November 2006, 22:56
A 139 is as big as it will take, something the coast guard might want to keep in mind when they go on the hunt for new heli's.
CHC have the SAR contract in Ireland. They renewed their contract in the UK at the end of 2005 & agreed to introduce the S92 & AW139 as new SAR Helos under the new contract. I would guess that they would offer the same helos when the Irish contract is up for renewal in a couple of years (I think!)
http://www.chc.ca/europe_ireland.php

http://www.chc.ca/europe_uk_search_and_rescue.php
United Kingdom
Search and Rescue
CHC will deploy the Sikorsky S-92 and the Agusta Bell AW139 in connection with the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) SAR contract announced December 12, 2005. CHC will operate two S-92s at Stornoway and two S-92s at Sumburgh, plus two AB139s based at Lee-on-Solent and an additional AB139 at Portland.
The introduction of the S-92 and the AB139 will mean an increase in the Coastguard's operating range and speed, so that the time to arrive ‘on scene’ will be reduced. Combined with an increase in the speed of the winch, the overall result is a reduction in the time taken to get medical aid to those in need.
Scotia operates from bases in North Denes (Great Yarmouth) and Humberside. To service facilities in the Irish Sea, CHC operates from a base in Blackpool, England.
CHC operates the following helicopter types in the UK:
Sikorsky S-92 SAR (commencing 2007)
Super Puma AS332L, A332L2 (Mark II)
Eurocopter EC 255 (commencing 2007)
Sikorsky S76A+, S76C
SA365N, N2 (Dauphin II)
Agusta Bell AB 139 SAR (commencing 2007)

Sikorsky S-92
http://www.chc.ca/images/CHCS92_th_000.jpg
Max cruise speed 151 nmph
Maximum passenger seating 19
Maximum range 996 km

Agusta Bell AW 139
http://www.chc.ca/images/AB_139_th.jpg
Cruise speed 151 nmph
Maximum passenger seating 14
Maximum range 415 nm

mutter nutter
22nd November 2006, 15:26
thanks to Alex SP on flying in Ireland:cool:
2 AB-139 during refuelling at Marseille Airport the 20th November


they are on the way



edit, sorry imageshack seems to be playing up at the moment, I'll try it again later, untill then I'll use the IMO host:frown:

mutter nutter
22nd November 2006, 15:27
one more

ODIN
22nd November 2006, 16:06
they look fairly cool..... Odin pictures about 10-12 of those lined up in the Bal and thinks, "wouldnt that be the right job"

mutter nutter
22nd November 2006, 16:25
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/3676/aw1391vt1.th.jpg (http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aw1391vt1.jpg)
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7649/aw1392cs8.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aw1392cs8.jpg)
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/5607/aw1393zs0.th.jpg (http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aw1393zs0.jpg)
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4468/aw1394zm1.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aw1394zm1.jpg)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1291/aw1395wv2.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aw1395wv2.jpg)
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1012/aw1396kf4.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aw1396kf4.jpg)

The Blue Max
22nd November 2006, 16:34
Excellent images they look alot better then i could ever of imagined when the words DAYGLO were rumoured prevously and now look at these magnificent assets of the IAC. May God Bless All Those Who Fly In Them And Contribution They Will Provide To The State And DF For Decades To Come...

DeV
22nd November 2006, 18:50
Winch fitted but where is the FLIR.

Goldie fish
22nd November 2006, 19:11
Winch fitted but where is the FLIR.

Not fitted at the moment, however there appears to be mounting for something under the chin, left of centreline(looking forward)

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/3676/aw1391vt1.th.jpg

Can I ask all users to put their photos in the IMO Gallery, and link them from there, instead of attaching same. Doing so would discourage "Media" types stealing the photos and using them in their "newspapers"

Eddie Dillon
23rd November 2006, 13:37
The two helis landed in the Curragh earlier. Got a few photos but having difficulty uploading them. Anyone who wants to see them just send a pm of your email address.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r224/eddiedillon/IMGP2200.jpg

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1498/imgp2198us8.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp2198us8.jpg)

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/57/imgp2195fe5.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp2195fe5.jpg)

mutter nutter
23rd November 2006, 13:44
cool Eddie, thanks:cool:

Slacker
23rd November 2006, 14:00
So We won't be seeing them fly over South Dublin on their way to the Don? Pity.

Best get back to me studies.

Thanks for the heads-up Ed.

Måk
24th November 2006, 10:43
Seen the pair of them fly over my house in Johnstown yesterday around 2.10pm..... the sound of the engines had me running for the window. Nice sight to behold.... now if ONLY we can convert those useless electronic voting machines to something useful.

regards

M&#229;k

ODIN
24th November 2006, 15:52
now if ONLY we can convert those useless electronic voting machines to something useful.

More Helis maybe??

Måk
24th November 2006, 16:07
read my mind Odin. Much more useful to have another 4 of these machines giving real value to the country. Rather that than having those voting machines sit there in storage and only possibly used ( if ever) once in a blue moon.

Regards

Måk

ODIN
24th November 2006, 16:13
Arent the voting machines stored by the DOD too?

Liachta Cultaca
24th November 2006, 17:02
And on that matter does anyone know how many kits are available, one or two?


It is my understanding that the Army Ambulances at Curragh Camp occasionally help out in the area around the camp, I dont know how often or for what type of assistance.


They only have one air ambulance kit for the EC135

Goldie fish
24th November 2006, 23:55
read my mind Odin. Much more useful to have another 4 of these machines giving real value to the country. Rather that than having those voting machines sit there in storage and only possibly used ( if ever) once in a blue moon.

Regards

Måk

Sell them to Florida?

Goldie fish
25th November 2006, 12:37
Something Interesting(in my opinion) about the new machines. One is an AB139. The other is an AW139.
Ser No Reg Owner Delivery Role Notes
31048 274 Irish Air Corps 8/2006 EMS/SAR/Multirole
31055 I-CDDL Consorzio Elicotteri Fininvest 10/2006 Corporate- First Certified AW139
31059 275 Irish Air Corps 11/2006 EMS/SAR/Multirole

Some photos(by armedboarder)

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1843&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1840&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1837&g2_serialNumber=1

Stinger
25th November 2006, 17:23
fantasic pictures

mutter nutter
25th November 2006, 17:36
greta pics

BTW, can I ask why the pilot is armed?

Barry
25th November 2006, 17:48
BTW, can I ask why the pilot is armed?
It's a pretty expensive piece of government property.

mutter nutter
25th November 2006, 17:52
It's a pretty expensive piece of government property.
I don't know too many teenage joyriders who have pilots licences:biggrin:

tonyrdf
25th November 2006, 18:07
Thats a nic pic of the GPMG mount, thought it would have been handier to arm the pilot with a sidearm....then again maybe that man isn't a pilot but another gunner/loadie?

mutter nutter
25th November 2006, 18:28
edited

pym
25th November 2006, 18:52
Looks like they've done a full job on them in the Curragh. If you look at the photos from Marseille you can see airline type seats in the back, but on the photos above they've installed crash resistant troop seats. These are not going to be toys, army co-op starts as soon as they land in Ireland - this could be a really good sign for the future.

Question, the object on top of the cockpit section - is that a wire cutter?

I wonder if they've retrofitted some kevlar, or other protection from small arms fire.

mutter nutter
25th November 2006, 19:00
Looks like they've done a full job on them in the Curragh. If you look at the photos from Marseille you can see airline type seats in the back, but on the photos above they've installed crash resistant troop seats. These are not going to be toys, army co-op starts as soon as they land in Ireland - this could be a really good sign for the future.

Question, the object on top of the cockpit section - is that a wire cutter?

I wonder if they've retrofitted some kevlar, or other protection from small arms fire.
your right they did install CR seats:cool:


yep they thing on top, blade shaped, is a wire cutter

pym
25th November 2006, 19:19
I hope the CR seats are left in 24/7, it might stop ministers wasting the few resources the DF actually have.

From the bit I've read on the 139's, they've an abundance of power - and in an emergency are able to cope with having an engine out. They really are a massive leap in performance from the Dauphins.

spike
25th November 2006, 20:00
here's one i prepared earlier

you can be sure the seats will be in and out like nobodies business

mutter nutter
25th November 2006, 20:05
these are some of the ones our own "Eddie Dillion" sent me, I'll pop them up
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/nuttery/IACaw1391.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/nuttery/Iacaw1392.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/nuttery/iacaw1393.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/nuttery/Iacaw1394.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/nuttery/IACaw1395.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/nuttery/iacaw1396.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/nuttery/iacaw1397.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p38/nuttery/iacaw1398.jpg



more later, icluding 2 short videos if I an get them to work

hptmurphy
25th November 2006, 20:24
I asume you mean Huey Hog......

Goldie fish
25th November 2006, 21:01
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1855&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1852&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1849&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1846&g2_serialNumber=1

Thanks again to Armed boarder for the photos.

andy
25th November 2006, 21:17
MAG mount should be Mini mount but apart from that they are excellent helis.

DeV
25th November 2006, 21:18
Looking at the last 2 pics in the above post:

Was one delivered with troop seats and one with more comfortable passenger seats? I presume seating is removable / interchangable.

I know the door in the last pic is fully open, but from this angle the cabin of the one with passenger type seating looks bigger. Is it just me?

ZULU
25th November 2006, 21:45
I asume you mean Huey Hog......

Apologies, had Pig on the brain. Pork chops for dinner:biggrin:

apod
25th November 2006, 21:46
Goldie ,was there meant to be more photos from armedboarder?The only one thats came up for me is the one of the door gunner.:confused:

apod
25th November 2006, 22:26
Cancel My last Goldie.I found them in the gallery.:smile: :redface:

Goldie fish
25th November 2006, 23:23
More photos, again from Armedboarder.

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1858&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1861&g2_serialNumber=1

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1864&g2_serialNumber=1


MAG mount should be Mini mount but apart from that they are excellent helis.

A what?

mugs
25th November 2006, 23:36
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1843& g2_serialNumber=1

Never in a millions years would anyone guess that is an Irish Air Corps door gunner :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Deadly!!!

Edit: Infact Goldie any chance you could find out if I can post this picture else where?

Barry
25th November 2006, 23:43
MAG mount should be Mini mount but apart from that they are excellent helis.
A what?
I think he means one of these:

http://www.specialoperations.com/Images_Folder/library11/minigun.gif

As pictured on a MH60L

Goldie fish
25th November 2006, 23:48
Edit: Infact Goldie any chance you could find out if I can post this picture else where?


No.

They are the property of Armedboarder.

Goldie fish
25th November 2006, 23:50
I think he means one of these:

http://www.specialoperations.com/Images_Folder/library11/minigun.gif

As pictured on a MH60L

Babysteps lads....baby steps.

Bosco
26th November 2006, 20:17
Drool

spike
27th November 2006, 00:01
teeny weenie baby steps goldie considering the reputed aversion a certain senior member of air corps management has towards the whole low and/or night flying bit as done by the rotary wing persuasion

ODIN
27th November 2006, 00:50
The new patch it seems....for sale on ebay already,

http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1872&g2_serialNumber=1

Truck Driver
27th November 2006, 06:26
http://gallery.irishmilitaryonline.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1843& g2_serialNumber=1

Never in a millions years would anyone guess that is an Irish Air Corps door gunner :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Deadly!!!

Edit: Infact Goldie any chance you could find out if I can post this picture else where?

Mugs,

Would not think that this guy is the gunner, as his rank markings (on shoulder
epaulette) indicate that he is commissioned.... I think it's a Captain's bars I'm looking at...
so it's probably the pilot or copilot

Craghopper
27th November 2006, 19:19
I'm sure he's just posing.

He's a Capt alright..Might take a spin over to bal tomorrow and take a few snaps.

Edit..just saw the Great Pic's on Page 8..I still might go over,wanna have a look anyway..

mugs
27th November 2006, 19:56
Mugs,

Would not think that this guy is the gunner, as his rank markings (on shoulder
epaulette) indicate that he is commissioned.... I think it's a Captain's bars I'm looking at...
so it's probably the pilot or copilot

Jesus Christ!!!

Way to piss on that!!!!:mad:

Turkey
27th November 2006, 20:26
As far as I can remember at least one of the people sent on the gunners course was an officer

Truck Driver
28th November 2006, 00:21
Jesus Christ!!!

Way to piss on that!!!!:mad:

Sorry you're offended....

ODIN
28th November 2006, 12:18
Anybody know when the option on the other possible 2 helis has to exercised

Scorpy
28th November 2006, 13:44
Not posing, definitely the real deal. BTW, he' s a little offended. I believe he used the phrase, 'I didn't spend three weeks breathing like a rapist lugging that lump of metal around in the mud to be called a poser'!

gaff85
28th November 2006, 15:06
'I didn't spend three weeks breathing like a rapist lugging that lump of metal around in the mud to be called a poser'!


This has to be one of the best rebuttals i've seen.....

Scorpy
28th November 2006, 22:50
No bothers.

There seem to be quite a lot of Officers qualified to do jobs that they don't normally fulfill in the aircraft. Seems to be something to do with supervision and with a new and potentially snaggy discipline such as door gunnery, it pays to have a bit of rank on your side when you are trying to get things sorted out. Notwithstanding the fact that the vast majority of Officers in the Air Corps are pilots, they do get double tasked all the time. You are right, it really does make a difference to know what the intricacies of a job are so that you can understand the requirements and better support and manage those you supervise. So the bould Lt (Don't promote him, he'll get a big head!) there is breaking ground now, but I'm sure that there will be no lack of volunteers from all branches of the army and NS willing to have a crack at raining down several hundred rounds of BKPM from above.

Knowing how much training goes into the course in the UK and knowing equally that the course here is going to be just as tough, only the best will make it through. It's not just about being able to handle the weapon, prospective candidates will have to be proficient in ALL aspects of crewing the helicopter, including potentially winching.

BKPM = Bad Karma Per Minute (!)

mutter nutter
28th November 2006, 23:05
so is part of the door gunner training being made to watch full metal jacket, the door gunner bit, and then re enacting it "get some get some" ect ect :biggrin:


I kid I kid, because I care

Scorpy
28th November 2006, 23:13
God, if I hear another quote from that film, I'll puke! Would be nice to see a DG badge or set of wings though....

mutter nutter
28th November 2006, 23:29
God, if I hear another quote from that film, I'll puke! Would be nice to see a DG badge or set of wings though....
I fell ashamed now, I'm...sorry:redface:

mutter nutter
28th November 2006, 23:30
....what about blairing the "ride of the valkyries" like out of apocalypse now?:cool:

Scorpy
28th November 2006, 23:36
No, we'll leave that to the cops with their PA system on the 135! Can't wait to see the music that will inevitably be put to the air firing videos of the 139.... any guesses??

Mick O'Toole
28th November 2006, 23:54
Anybody know when the option on the other possible 2 helis has to exercised

The decision will be taken by the cabinet before budget day, which is the start of next month. All the signs are that it will be a yes.

I was lucky enough to get a ride in the AW139 today (I met Frank from irishairpics.com there, so he should have some pics soon, including air to air shots). It was great. The only other helis I've been in were the Allouette and a Russian one in Liberia. I was immediately struck by the smoothness of the, admitedly short, flight. I was also struck by how large the 139 is. The Allouette was placed beside it and the 139 really dwarfed it on the apron. Quite a sight. I sat in the cockpit with the chief pilot and he was good enough to explain some of the display things (I felt a bit like Homer Simpson saying `uh huh, uh huh, uh huh' and not having a clue what he was talking about. But I think the gist of what he was saying was that the 139 is, in technical terms, shit hot.) Quite an experience, I have to say and some nice pics for my private anorak collection.

mutter nutter
28th November 2006, 23:57
Is that going to be in your paper tommorrow?

Mick O'Toole
29th November 2006, 00:04
Well, all the papers were there, so I imagine it'll be in all of them. But we're putting in four pics tomorrow with the story. Also, RTE were there, and it's somewhat disappointing there was nothing on their news website. I wonder if it was on the 6.1 or 9pm TV news? Joe O'Brien wasn't there, just a cameraman, unfortunately.

Joshua
29th November 2006, 00:32
and some nice pics for my private anorak collection.

Would you like to post them in the Gallery on IMO? :smile:

Scorpy
29th November 2006, 00:47
BTW Gaff, you ain't seen nuthin yet! They don't call me scorpy for no reason!

Bit disapointed that there was nothing on the news. Should be a nice shot in the Times tomorrow, took ages to get something different after everyone else was gone. Light was crap and weather was pretty dismal too. Nothing like a photo op to set the hounds amongst the hares tho!:smile:

Have to say, chuffed with the aircraft, gutted to lose the Alouettes (timescale?:confused: )

Should be interesting to see developments i.e. how long until they are broken by military ops.

Hope the army gets a kick out of them. Must be interesting to be a recruit and know no different when one of these turns up for your heli drills:tongue:

Frank
29th November 2006, 11:27
Hi Guys,

I was present at Baldonnel on Tuesday 28th November for the official unveiling of the new AW139 helicopters for the Irish Air Corps.

I was lucky enough to fly in one of the AW139's in the company of the Minister for Defence no less! I was also fortunate to get up for some air to air sessions with the AW139 as well.

Unfortunately poor light and bad weather didn't help things (ISO 800 and even 1600!), that and the fact that my IS got knocked off sometime during the evening didn't help matters.

Anyway, here's the best from the day, I think there's a good selection of piccies here, all feedback is welcome.

Large versions of these piccies can be found here:

http://www.irishairpics.com/reports/aw139_delivery_06/

Thanks for looking.


Regards,

Frank.

-------------------------------------


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018055M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018054M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018053M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018052M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018051M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018050M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018049M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018048M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018047M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018046M.jpg

Frank
29th November 2006, 11:27
Some more piccies:


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018045M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018044M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018043M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018042M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018041M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018038M.jpg

X-RayOne
29th November 2006, 12:26
" and some nice pics for my private anorak collection.

Would you like to post them in the Gallery on IMO?"

why would we like to look at anoraks in the gallery section? :smile:

mutter nutter
29th November 2006, 12:45
-------------------------------------



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018050M.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018049M.jpg

]
great photos..especially like these ones:biggrin: thank you.

ZULU
29th November 2006, 14:26
Excellent photos as per usual Frank. Thanks

ODIN
29th November 2006, 14:44
Fantastic pics!!!

Thorpe
29th November 2006, 15:04
Frank, many thanks.

apod
29th November 2006, 15:32
Thanks Frank.:biggrin:

mutter nutter
29th November 2006, 15:44
it was mentioned on the Key aviation forums that the AW-149 is being looked at by the AC now....anything in that?:confused:

mugs
29th November 2006, 19:02
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018038M.jpg

Above the door, are they attactments for fast roping?

mutter nutter
29th November 2006, 19:07
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a314/irishairpics/aw139_delivery/1018038M.jpg

Above the door, are they attactments for fast roping?
yes

DeV
29th November 2006, 19:23
In the above picture (quoted bu mutter mutter and mugs):

There is attachment (of some description between the nose wheels and lower wire cutters. Is that the mounting point for the FLIR?

Great pics Frank

mutter nutter
29th November 2006, 19:33
In the above picture (quoted bu mutter mutter and mugs):

There is attachment (of some description between the nose wheels and lower wire cutters. Is that the mounting point for the FLIR?

Great pics Frank
that kind of mushroom shape?...I think that is where the FLIR ball is mounted, yep

Itchy
29th November 2006, 19:44
Whats the story with the spent rounds from the DG? Why are they collected inside the chopper?

Goldie fish
29th November 2006, 20:02
I looked at a Mercedes yesterday...

Doesnt mean I'm going to buy one.

mutter nutter
29th November 2006, 20:02
I looked at a Mercedes yesterday...

Doesnt mean I'm going to buy one.
Merc's have poor reliabilty anyway..........

ZULU
29th November 2006, 20:06
IS it just me or does it look very similar to the Bell 222?

The intake ports look awfully small or am I looking at the wrong section

Steamy Window
29th November 2006, 20:09
Whats the story with the spent rounds from the DG? Why are they collected inside the chopper?

Would you like to land on your target to collect brass?:biggrin:

How much traverse is there on the DG?

Duffer
29th November 2006, 20:35
Excellent pictures, Great to see modern aircraft in Irish colours, Complements to photographer, New machines look effective

California Tanker
29th November 2006, 22:55
I'm wondering what the radome-like components are for, just under the pilots' doors.

Is there an official list of the electronics fit?

NTM

pym
29th November 2006, 23:37
I'm wondering what the radome-like components are for, just under the pilots' doors.

Is there an official list of the electronics fit?

NTM

The black bumps? I'm thinking flotation gear unless someone knows better. They're also towards the back of main cabin.

I'm interested in the range of motion possible with the gun, and whether two gunners works out.

Goldie fish
30th November 2006, 01:15
Flotation gear it is.

Judging by the mount I imagine about 120deg each side, split 60deg each.

How important is traverse really?

Steamy Window
30th November 2006, 01:22
Flotation gear it is.

Judging by the mount I imagine about 120deg each side, split 60deg each.

How important is traverse really?

Just curiosity, nothing to do with importance

Goldie fish
30th November 2006, 01:28
My question was not necessarily directed at you. Do you need 360deg cover when operating in a vehicle capable of being manipulated through three dimensions? Surely depression is more important than traverse(with an elevation limit naturally....).
I notice other military air arms limit their heli door guns to either the rear ramp or either door(not both)

Acidsphere
30th November 2006, 02:37
Just beautiful. Thanks Frank!

Frank
30th November 2006, 11:46
Hi Guys,

Sorry for not replying sooner, thanks for the feedback too!

To answer your questions...

The mounting under the nose is for the FLIR, I was told the model but I'm damned if I can remember what it is! The image is displayed on one of the screens in the cockpit, I think the middle screen.

The gun has a range of movement as follows: -45 to +45 degrees in traverse (90 degrees total), -45 to 0 degrees in elevation (I got a tour of the gun mount those are the numbers as good as I can remember them, had a busy day, lots of info to soak up)

The spent shells and links are captured in a bag suspended under the gun.


Regards,

Frank.

ZULU
30th November 2006, 14:29
2117

With the FLIR mounted, is there much room for a hard landing before the FLIR starts hitting the ground?