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  • #46
    If the AC had €50m a year to do SAR there'd be reasons to be upset about lack of top cover. CHC decided when tendering that heli top cover was suitable, if not we'd be paying another €10m for them to do so.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
      Bloody hell
      Surely it's not surprising?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by morpheus View Post
        At least the military was defended on Newstalk - they pointed the finger at funding and resourcing by department of defence as a reason for loss of key staff and operational knock on effects. i'm shocked and saddened but the budget BS and penny pinching as been going on for too long now. Ill bet the lads and lassies in the AC, especially on the CASA teams will feel pretty down and angry right now.
        The coverage was quite balanced in fairness.

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        • #49
          The decision to proceed on any mission is the crews at the end of the day, if they are happy with helo TC...

          This isn't just a matter of budget cutbacks etc (although I doubt they have helped), since at least the 90s personnel availability has been an issue for the AC.

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          • #50
            Don't declare yourself as an SAR asset unless you can commit to a 24/7 service.
            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
            German 2: Private? I am a general!
            German 1: That is the bad news.

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            • #51
              Some services should not be privatised and this is one of them. What level of service could the aer core provide if it had an additional 50 million a year for 10 years.
              Last edited by ibenji; 16 March 2017, 12:39.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by ibenji View Post
                Some services should not be privatised and this is one of them. What level of service could the aer core provide if it had an additional 50 million a year for 10 years.
                You so sure that Finance would have signed off on the 92's if it was the AC asking for it?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                  Don't declare yourself as an SAR asset unless you can commit to a 24/7 service.
                  Which is why no AC aircraft has ever been a declared asset

                  The MOU between the IRCG and DF (see 6.4)

                  http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/fi...efence-sla.pdf

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                    You so sure that Finance would have signed off on the 92's if it was the AC asking for it?
                    Of course not. Why would the department of finance do anything that actually makes sense. They are the only section of the public service to get a pmds rating of 4 / 5 which they ignored what was happening in the boom times. The benefits of PPP's have not materialised especially for ireland

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                    • #55
                      Remain on topic or be instabanned with no warning. Open another thread if you want to discuss
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                      • #56
                        Aer Corp had a Casa in the air by 4.30am to look for the missing aircraft.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by sofa View Post
                          Aer Corp had a Casa in the air by 4.30am to look for the missing aircraft.
                          Different situation compared to when they weer asked to provide for Top Cover I guess.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by sofa View Post
                            Aer Corp had a Casa in the air by 4.30am to look for the missing aircraft.
                            four hours after the aircraft went into the sea, and from a point more than 200km away - fantastic, are you ready to repel the Normans?

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                            • #59
                              The AC responded as best it could, it is not on 24hr standby, they put emergency plans into action and got people back to be able to launch the CASA. Although it shows some of the weakness in our system the main concern should first be recovery of the missing and finding out what happened to cause this tragic event. One of the key questions will be are the rest of the S92 fleet safe as they are still being crewed by brave men and women providing SAR around our shores. Once we know what happened then will be the time to see how we can improve the situation and hopefully avoid another such loss.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                                The AC responded as best it could, it is not on 24hr standby, they put emergency plans into action and got people back to be able to launch the CASA...
                                the first request for assistance was at around 10pm, for a rescue waaaaaaaay the hell out into the North Atlantic, at night, in March. even if they were not able to generate an aircraft immediately the alarms should have gone off that an aircraft was required - not least because 50% of the IRCG assets were involved in this rescue and unavailable for operations elsewhere. it then took them 6 hours to generate an 'emergency' response - does 'emergency' have a different meaning in the AC from the rest of the English speaking world?

                                Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                                Although it shows some of the weakness in our system the main concern should first be recovery of the missing and finding out what happened to cause this tragic event. One of the key questions will be are the rest of the S92 fleet safe as they are still being crewed by brave men and women providing SAR around our shores. Once we know what happened then will be the time to see how we can improve the situation and hopefully avoid another such loss.
                                no, the immediate priority to to address the capability gaps thrown into sharp relief by this tragedy - the cause of this could be anything, and it could be months before its known. we know that the top cover and emergency response capabilities are woefully inadaquate and there are things that could be done to adress that tomorow morning, we won't know if a seagull went to the engine or the FADEC failed, or a gearbox exploded until the FDR and CVR are retreived at the very least, and quite possibly until the wreckage is recovered from the sea floor.

                                it is quite possible, likely perhaps, that in this instance the circumstances of the aircraft loss meant that the ability to react to an emergency was entirely irrelevent to whether lives would be lost or not, but we can see that in different circumstances the inability to react and to do so quickly might well be the difference between saving lives and recovering bodies.

                                RIP, its bloody sad.

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