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  • There are always manipulations of figures going on; if you went into the Don and counted the actual number of pilots available for Casa duty, it would be quite small, given that rotorcraft are in the majority; same applies to mechs working on the Casas, ATC, storemen, drivers and all the sundry others. Also, you have pilots on ground tours or away on courses/career breaks /leave /sick,etc so the actual, usable headcount is quite small. In the case of ATC, what happened was, when the Casas came into service, they insisted that they be the only source of personnel to operate the mission equipment in the aircraft so that sucked bodies out of ATC, which was already thinly manned and it had the ultimate effect of driving people out of the Don, because flying in Casas, on shift, down the back end, is boring and tiring and a bit dangerous so people voted with their feet and left. It also affected photographers, who used to fly sporadically, who now found themselves rostered to fly, for six hours in a Casa, instead of short flights, so they got fed up and started to leave. It also brought pressure to bear on storemen, drivers and the caterers, who suddenly found themselves having to work hard in a 24 hr environment. Same for the mechs. Life prior to the 24 hr environment, was relatively cushy but now, having to be in at 2 am to service a Casa for a rapid turnaround to do an air ambulance, upset the applecart. The Don suddenly had to do some growing up and it had to do it in a hurry and it did not always do so willingly. Certain little empires fought their corner and it all got very shouty. Events like Dh 248 caused major upsets to cushy lifestyles and it would be unfortunate if R116 has to generate yet another upset, even though the Don is blameless on the non-availability of the Casa for that illfated op. The people who turned off the tap for 24/7 ops will run for cover and I'll bet a dollar that the hapless Don will be blamed, as they are convenient and suitably silent targets.

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    • Surely though some of the responsibility for the current situation lands at the door of GOCAC? The current office holder came directly from fixed wing and should be unde no illusion as to the current happenings? This is not news! As far back as the introduction of Naval Co-Op these difficulties and the 9-5 mentality and opposition to change was widely known. Even the closure of Gormo as an Air Corps base saw droves leave the service instead of having to commute to south dublin.

      Away from this debate, which will go on and on, latest news reports are suggesting that recovered wreckage from R116 tail section show the aircraft made contact with the rock face of Black Rock Island.
      Very tragic, and we can only hope that the weather permits a fast recovery of the remaining missing crew and the voice and data recorders.
      German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
      German 2: Private? I am a general!
      German 1: That is the bad news.

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      • Journalists are insinuating that the helicopter crashed into the rock, the AAIU statement says ".... consistent with the tail of the aircraft contacting rocky surfaces on the Western end of Blackrock."

        http://afloat.ie/safety/coastguard/i...e-loss-of-r116

        That doesn't necessarily mean it was attached to the aircraft at the time or that it happened during the crash.

        Comment


        • That statement is from yesterday. Things seem to be different today.
          https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/201...icopter-crash/
          http://www.thejournal.ie/investigato...98517-Mar2017/
          Jurgen White on Morning Ireland.
          http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radiop...2D03%2D2017%5F
          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
          German 2: Private? I am a general!
          German 1: That is the bad news.

          Comment


          • I would imagine that the two fatality incidents concerning the Cg will cause a review of ops regarding the dispatch of units in the line of risk assessment and critical nature of the op. This will not bring back the brave ones who did not return but may reduce the possibility of future negative outcomes.

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            • RTE reporting that the Wreckage has been located and identified here's hoping the Remains will be recovered soon.

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              • Newstalk this morning, about 50mm in on the top redslider. DF in Crisis
                http://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/...akfast_Part_2/

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                • Reports on radio confirming a T4 has been recovered.

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                  • Blackbox has been recovered and 1 body located

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                    • Media were asked not to report this until family notified, but Journal.ie and the Mirror went ahead and reported it anyway.
                      German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                      German 2: Private? I am a general!
                      German 1: That is the bad news.

                      Comment


                      • MOD: Just a reminder. People have died and their families can be aware of what is posted here. Please do not name names of which bodies may have been recovered until it has been confirmed that their families have been informed. EVEN if that name has been reported in some media outlets. You are all doing very well on this thread but do not underestimate how much it can upset families if the name is released too early.

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                        • Independent reporting divers are limited to 9 minutes on the wreck and other sources say it's at 40 meters.
                          Which makes sense as 9 minutes is the no deco limit at 40m on air. For civilians.
                          No in-water decompression in those swells makes sense, but no nitrox, or no chamber on board....dammit we need to up our game.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by expat01 View Post
                            Independent reporting divers are limited to 9 minutes on the wreck and other sources say it's at 40 meters.
                            Which makes sense as 9 minutes is the no deco limit at 40m on air. For civilians.
                            No in-water decompression in those swells makes sense, but no nitrox, or no chamber on board....dammit we need to up our game.
                            chamber is on board irish lights vessel on scene as far as i know

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by restless View Post
                              chamber is on board irish lights vessel on scene as far as i know
                              Correct, NSDS containerised one

                              Comment


                              • Correct me if I'm wrong here:
                                If they are on single 12 litres, that would leave them at critical on 9-12 minutes, depending on the diver's fitness. But nobody would go down to 40 on a working dive without twins.
                                A 30% mix should give them a no-deco time of closer to 15 minutes. I suppose they would have to use 29% to keep to a P02 of 1.4, which these days is the conservative limit.
                                A decompression chamber should allow them to directly surface even after half an hour bottom time then use the chamber.
                                So it still sounds like they are working to Buhlmann no-deco limits for ordinary air and not using the chamber...
                                Unless there are only a couple of dive teams, each team needs at least three hours and increasing out of the water to dive again "clean" without being increasingly restricted on subsequent dives and we might be reading the limits that they are subject to because of repetitive dives without and adequate surface interval...and no use of a chamber or nitrox?
                                Last edited by expat01; 25 March 2017, 20:51.

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