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  • RDF Driving Courses and Qualifications

    Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
    In the cases of the guys who went they are actually ahead of what any proposed integration could have done with them in Sothern brigade
    No wonder they were RTU'd or RTU'd them selves, your supposed to be up skilling!!

    fully qualified in Gunnery, driving ,Instruction of both and had done the PDF CAV CTR course
    They completed the TVMS MT instructors course?
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  • #2
    They completed the TVMS MT instructors course?


    Given the lack of the specifi vehicle type nope.

    Just the AML types that are available in the south and to the reserve/

    No wonder they were RTU'd or RTU'd them selves, your supposed to be up skilling!!
    Probably just got bored lol
    Dunno what the actual circumsatnces are but.. they are finished,, thats all I can be sure of.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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    • #3
      well now here´s a a question. How many RDF driving instructors are there and why aren´t they out teaching the biggest RDF group who need to know how to drive i.e Inf

      Most of my civvy B/C/D licence holders are NCOs and I dont want or need them driving.

      If an NCO is driving it means somethings wrong.

      So - I need Mod 1 courses. WHERE ARE THEY ? No instructors on Inf Bn Estab.
      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        well now here´s a a question. How many RDF driving instructors are there and why aren´t they out teaching the biggest RDF group who need to know how to drive i.e Inf

        Most of my civvy B/C/D licence holders are NCOs and I dont want or need them driving.

        If an NCO is driving it means somethings wrong.

        So - I need Mod 1 courses. WHERE ARE THEY ? No instructors on Inf Bn Estab.
        There was a "conversion course" being organised within my sub-unit this year that turned into a brigade cse. It was modules 1 & 2. Module 1 is Drivers Standing Orders, Health & Safety, Documentation etc, why do need module 1 courses? We did it in 2 1/2 - 3 days.

        Trellheim if you can't get PDF drivers / hire transport and you want to get somewhere, are you still going to advise NCOs not to do the driving course?

        Infantry units are supposed to be self sufficient with regard to transport. Agreed most people with B/C/D licences are going to be NCOs, but not all. Of course their is the problem of a shortage of 3 stars but thats another story.

        Tpt Coy 62 LSB has a min of around 4/5 MT Dvr Instrs.

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        • #5
          Of course not. The lack of NCOs & drivers means everyone a driver means that everyone who is driving usually doesn´t lead the troops.

          Drivers tend to drive ... NCOs should lead. Difficult to do so from the wheel.

          As for Mod 1 I meant driving from the learning to drive -i.e. provisional B licence only.

          Like I said my full B/C/D licence boys tend to be a few years on and NCOs and I want them leading not driving.

          Theres no problem hiring transport but why bother when I could have real transport ?.

          plus I need them driving trucks not transits or nissans but I know its not set up like that so cue crapola from tpt saying thats not our job.

          Here is a factoid for yez : 22 years in old and new merged Inf Coy. Zero FCA and RDF drivers qualified on any GS-Wagon-truck in that time in the coy. I can have 5-10 people on a learning to drive course tomorrow - theyll happily drive for me for 2 years . Where are the courses ...
          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by trellheim View Post
            Of course not. The lack of NCOs & drivers means everyone a driver means that everyone who is driving usually doesn´t lead the troops.

            Drivers tend to drive ... NCOs should lead. Difficult to do so from the wheel.
            Agreed, plus it can be difficult for drivers to multi task (depending on the situation).

            As for Mod 1 I meant driving from the learning to drive -i.e. provisional B licence only.
            Unfortually it takes longer than the 7 day course I did.

            Theres no problem hiring transport but why bother when I could have real transport ?.
            So long as the budget hasn't been spent!

            plus I need them driving trucks not transits or nissans but I know its not set up like that so cue crapola from tpt saying thats not our job.
            Actually it is, as luchi has said the bread & butter of tpt is now drops, coaches, etc. Problem is that driving is modular (and in infantry case it is usually a conversion course, not a learn to drive cse) so you have to do nissan before you go on the standard 154 (minibus & TCV).

            I can have 5-10 people on a learning to drive course tomorrow - theyll happily drive for me for 2 years . Where are the courses ...
            Ask cadre / tpt / bde?

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            • #7
              Before you guys go off the deep end about the driving courses. TVMS have instructed our MT officer that the syllibus must be followed to the letter!!
              SO from now on.
              Mod 1 is 70hrs, thats 3 weeks full time or 1 year + 2 weeks camp in RDF.
              MOd 2 is 171hrs, thats 7 weeks full time or 3 years and two 2 week camps.

              So can you really do without 10 bods for 4 years and 3 camps just to drive for 2 years.

              Hence although I said "not my job" in reality for the for seeable future it is!!!

              And we have 8 TVMS tested Instructors but a lot more "old" instructors that the CO has insisted continue to instruct regardless of the TI!!!

              If we are to discuss this further I suggest we do it else where?

              Oh just to clarify an earlier point
              When the FCA was formed everyone was considered capable of riding a bicycle. In 2007 many can drive a car. Thus I consider it a basic skill. NOt one that takes 241 hours to learn!!!!
              Last edited by luchi; 12 October 2007, 22:47.
              Without supplies no army is brave.

              —Frederick the Great,

              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

              Comment


              • #8
                Following that line of logic an S&T recruit must pass recruit and 2* training before getting to drive.

                Both Rec. and 2* training take a year each; that course above takes a year. Therefore 3 years before being able to drive. What use is that.

                Additionally, those can be done at weekends [ and as far as I remember the syllabus says test them when they're ready not after a certain amount of hours ]
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                Comment


                • #9
                  on the subject of nco's driving.

                  nco's you are nearly guarenteed will turn up on a sunday morning
                  when they are needed pte's you cant really rely on (in my unit anyway)
                  plus if you have nco's on drivers coarses the following year you wont be lookin for more places on coarses because the privates have gone off to collage or just decided the reserve wasnt for them.
                  in my unit we only have two reserve drivers and neither can drive a truck.
                  i was supposed to be goin on a drivers coarse a while ago only to be told the day before that no snr nco's were allowed on it since when has a sgt been a snr nco ?
                  Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Maybe they ment senior as in OLD?


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by luchi View Post
                      Before you guys go off the deep end about the driving courses. TVMS have instructed our MT officer that the syllibus must be followed to the letter!!
                      SO from now on.
                      Mod 1 is 70hrs, thats 3 weeks full time or 1 year + 2 weeks camp in RDF.
                      MOd 2 is 171hrs, thats 7 weeks full time or 3 years and two 2 week camps.
                      Is there no way that the TVMS will recognize civilian qualifications to drive?

                      ie if you have a full B license can you not go forward to be tested for a restricted 154 etc??
                      Last edited by Liachta Cultaca; 15 October 2007, 14:28.
                      I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                        Following that line of logic an S&T recruit must pass recruit and 2* training before getting to drive.
                        S&T is gone its Tpt but yes you must have 3* before going on a driving course.

                        Both Rec. and 2* training take a year each; that course above takes a year. Therefore 3 years before being able to drive. What use is that.
                        3 years before you can start the mod 2 driving course. Technically you still can't drive. So 5 years to drive a nissan on your own!!!!

                        Additionally, those can be done at weekends [ and as far as I remember the syllabus says test them when they're ready not after a certain amount of hours ]
                        In my course duration calculations above, I was assuming the use of weekends etc. "Test when ready" is an interesting concept when you must show a training diary detailing the completion of the hrs of the syllibus.

                        Module 2 has 23 hrs of lectures i.e. 16 tuesday nights (2 classes per night) or 6 field days.

                        Originally posted by Liachta Cultaca View Post
                        Is there no way that the TVMS will recognize civilian qualifications to drive?
                        Ha'Ha! Are you serious?

                        ie if you have a full B license can you not go forward to be tested for a restricted 154 etc??
                        Of course you can as long as you do a 1 week conversion course.

                        This is where I have a rant.

                        Module 1 is a farce!!!

                        Do the mil authorities think that their own personnel are too thick to be able to learn the ROTR and DSO. The syllibus of training is a joke designed to delay progress as much as possible.

                        Why not give lads that are interested in becoming drivers the DSO and ROTR with their 2*. Tell them to come back when they have their 3* to be tested. No need to hand hold, they do it if they want to move on. If they pass then they can be taught admin and TA proceedures on a field day then straight on to the driving and vehicle checks!!

                        Mod 2 is little better than mod 1. Considering the H&S is just a repeat but they insist that it must be done.
                        Mod 3 syllibus is 7 years old but is more realistic than mod 1 or 2. Peoplelearn to drive empty vehicles arround. Then the first detail they have a load they nearly sh1t themselves because the vehicle doesn't handle the same way

                        When will the mil authorities take their heads out of their asses and realise that people are not brain dead. Driving is now a basic skill like riding a bike was 50 years ago!!! And yes even driving a truck!!! Some have an aptitude for it and some don't but that doesn't make it any less of a basic skill.
                        Last edited by luchi; 15 October 2007, 15:38.
                        Without supplies no army is brave.

                        —Frederick the Great,

                        Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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                        • #13
                          Are the "conversation courses" still allowed for full licence holders luchi?

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                          • #14
                            I am still looking for the conversion course syllibus. But it is a 1 week full time course. We have run a few overweek ends but have now been told that it is to be done as a week full time with the test carried out by the testing officer in 2LSB. I can see the point in this as doing weekends makes it drag for everyone.

                            The conversion course only gives you mod 2 regardless of experience. Up untill recently it was accepted that professional drivers would be "fast tracked" but there is now resistance to that. Probably reflecting the RTA changes and the RSA involvement in transport management.

                            On the subject of professional drivers. They cannot legally drive for the DF at the weekend if exceeded their driving hours during the week. And if they do any other paid employment during their rest period they are legally obliged to take a 48hr rest period before re-starting work. So if you unit has any HGV of LPSV drivers you can forget about them driving at weekends.
                            Without supplies no army is brave.

                            —Frederick the Great,

                            Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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                            • #15
                              The tester has to come from either a different LSB (ie from a different bde than the students) or from TVMS.

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