Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

AFV Armament.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • AFV Armament.

    If it comes down to it, what would be preferable between a 120 mm mortar or the 105 mm gun? Mortar can fire high trajectory, the AMOS/NEMO has the capability of a TOT barrage and also has a direct fire capability. The 105 mm gun has better anti-armour capability.

    Would the mortar be more suitable to the DF's needs?

    Oh yeah, I know very little about the cav business so be nice

    Actually, can the NEMO be fitted to a Mowag??
    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

  • #2
    It seems that the Cavalry will be equipped with Mowags with three different turrets/guns - 12.7mm, 30mm, and 105mm.

    IMHO, they would be better off with

    (i) one Mowag type, mounting a 30mm main gun, with 12.7mm and/or 7.62mm secondary weapons, and a couple of Javelins in launchers on the turret;

    (ii) light armoured vehicles with RWSs;

    and (iii) UAVs.

    We don't need tanks, the 105mm is only intended for defence, so the ATGMs would cover any opposing tanks that might appear and the 30mm gun can deal with most other threats. The Mowags can carry dismounts and the light vehicles can be used where stealth and speed are greater priorities. The UAVs provide surveillance and targeting.

    That would provide a much more flexible and useful set of assets than having all Mowags. These vehicles will be used primarily for patrolling and escort work on overseas deployments. Given the small numbers involved, how can they be sure to have the one with the little gun, the one with the medium gun, or the one with the great big gun, in the right place at the right time?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by easyrider View Post
      It seems that the Cavalry will be equipped with Mowags with three different turrets/guns - 12.7mm, 30mm, and 105mm.

      IMHO, they would be better off with

      (i) one Mowag type, mounting a 30mm main gun, with 12.7mm and/or 7.62mm secondary weapons, and a couple of Javelins in launchers on the turret;

      (ii) light armoured vehicles with RWSs;

      and (iii) UAVs.

      We don't need tanks, the 105mm is only intended for defence, so the ATGMs would cover any opposing tanks that might appear and the 30mm gun can deal with most other threats. The Mowags can carry dismounts and the light vehicles can be used where stealth and speed are greater priorities. The UAVs provide surveillance and targeting.

      That would provide a much more flexible and useful set of assets than having all Mowags. These vehicles will be used primarily for patrolling and escort work on overseas deployments. Given the small numbers involved, how can they be sure to have the one with the little gun, the one with the medium gun, or the one with the great big gun, in the right place at the right time?
      sorry that info is a need to know but if you were a cavalry man/woman you would already know the answer to that last question
      Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

      Comment


      • #4
        How many ATGMs can you carry? How much per missile? You can't really beat a big gun for versatility, and more importantly, when engaged in the type of operations we are engaged in overseas, having the tools to intimidate.

        A story is told that the appearance of the Panhard AML 90 at an incedent in Lebanon was enough to defuse the situation immediately. The sound of a chock dropping was usually followed with the sound of those engaged in debate with UNIFIL soiling themselves.

        Very hard to "point" a missile at someone in threat...


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • #5
          is there a mowag in service with any army that has javilen launchers,also are we not in need for a larger weapon as our 90ml are out-dated.

          @Goldie Fish i am sorry text speak wont happen again,also im a member of the reseve defence forces of ireland

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
            How many ATGMs can you carry? How much per missile? You can't really beat a big gun for versatility, and more importantly, when engaged in the type of operations we are engaged in overseas, having the tools to intimidate.

            A story is told that the appearance of the Panhard AML 90 at an incedent in Lebanon was enough to defuse the situation immediately. The sound of a chock dropping was usually followed with the sound of those engaged in debate with UNIFIL soiling themselves.

            Very hard to "point" a missile at someone in threat...

            A Cavalry Bradley carries two TOWs ready-to-fire and five reloads. The little French VBL with a MILAN launcher carries six missiles. So it shouldn't be a problem to carry enough to get you out of trouble. And if it's just for show, then the 30mm gun should be able to do the job, and it could also deal with anything short of an MBT.

            Comment


            • #7
              Reloads...

              "Gunner, get out of the turret and reload another missile there. You didn't quite hit the enemy with the last shot. You pissed them off though."

              "Short of an MBT".

              You get one chance with modern MBTs. Our lowly panhards often faced down Merkava tanks. The Izzies knew they'd win the firefight, but if the 90 got the first shot off accurately, it could ruin the crews day.
              Its down to Guns V Missiles at the end of the day. Guns are more versatile. Thats the modern thinking. I'm sure Cal Tanker would prefer his 120mm smooth bore over the TOW any day. Remember with the TOW, you have to wait while the missile finds its target, exposing you to counter attack.


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by chapofdryans View Post
                is there a mowag in service with any army that has javilen launchers,also are we not in need for a larger weapon as our 90ml are out-dated.

                @Goldie Fish i am sorry text speak wont happen again,also im a member of the reseve defence forces of ireland
                the cav CRV can be fitted with javlin
                the 2nd picture is the weapons platform on the cav CRV
                Attached Files
                madmark
                If in doubt load HE
                Last edited by madmark; 2 April 2008, 20:16.
                Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So do we want something that will provide fire support only or have an anti-tank capability as well? For the sake of the argument lets say we're looking at the Mk 8 90mm and the CT-CV 105mm. If it's fire support only, why go for the heavier/less mobile and more expensive 105mm. The 90mm may not have the advantage against armour but it is likely do to near as much as the 105mm can in other respects.

                  If we want an anti-tank capability(and I presume we do), the 105mm may be better than the 90mm but even with modern ammunition it's still inadequate against any tank from the T-72 up. After all, why are Leopard 2s being upgraded to the 55 calibre 120mm gun? Therefore, I see a need for atgms. They give you the ability to engage modern tanks and do so before they can fire on you. I suggest two options:
                  • Mk 8 90mm and Hitfist with Tows

                  • CT-CV 105mm with barrel launched atgms
                  You will never have a quiet world until you knock the patriotism out of the human race

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fireplace View Post
                    So do we want something that will provide fire support only or have an anti-tank capability as well? For the sake of the argument lets say we're looking at the Mk 8 90mm and the CT-CV 105mm. If it's fire support only, why go for the heavier/less mobile and more expensive 105mm. The 90mm may not have the advantage against armour but it is likely do to near as much as the 105mm can in other respects.

                    If we want an anti-tank capability(and I presume we do), the 105mm may be better than the 90mm but even with modern ammunition it's still inadequate against any tank from the T-72 up. After all, why are Leopard 2s being upgraded to the 55 calibre 120mm gun? Therefore, I see a need for atgms. They give you the ability to engage modern tanks and do so before they can fire on you. I suggest two options:
                    • Mk 8 90mm and Hitfist with Tows

                    • CT-CV 105mm with barrel launched atgms
                    there is one reason same car as what they have, same spare parts and so on. This is the way the army looks at things
                    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Modern 105mm ammunition inadequate against any tank from T72 up you say? How know you this?


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        would the 105 ammo be the same stuff as the 105mm howitizer use?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fireplace View Post
                          So do we want something that will provide fire support only or have an anti-tank capability as well? For the sake of the argument lets say we're looking at the Mk 8 90mm and the CT-CV 105mm. If it's fire support only, why go for the heavier/less mobile and more expensive 105mm. The 90mm may not have the advantage against armour but it is likely do to near as much as the 105mm can in other respects.

                          If we want an anti-tank capability(and I presume we do), the 105mm may be better than the 90mm but even with modern ammunition it's still inadequate against any tank from the T-72 up. After all, why are Leopard 2s being upgraded to the 55 calibre 120mm gun? Therefore, I see a need for atgms. They give you the ability to engage modern tanks and do so before they can fire on you. I suggest two options:
                          • Mk 8 90mm and Hitfist with Tows

                          • CT-CV 105mm with barrel launched atgms
                          The CT-CV is designed to defeat most MBT armour, but if your sending Mowags against MBT's face on then your ****ed either way, the 105 would be to give them a chance to defeat a tank, not engage them as a tank, and to give the option of fire support, ect ect, there are a lot of new shell's with various new capabilities being brought in, in 105mm, there are none in 90mm, and if our lad's ever came up against an enemy using Leo II, Challies, Abram's, Le Clerc's, ect, then I'm assuming it's WWIII/IV/V delete as you see fit. type situation:wink:


                          The Army in Belgium is annoyed as they wanted the 105mm, it proved far supirior in test's but as Cal said, the 90mm was a job's winner for the MOD, but the army there may have the last laugh, they may be getting the 105 anyway.
                          mutter nutter
                          "Nice ass, Samson..."
                          Last edited by mutter nutter; 2 April 2008, 23:01.
                          Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                          Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by warthog View Post
                            would the 105 ammo be the same stuff as the 105mm howitizer use?
                            The CT-CV is designed to fire all Nato 105mm Tank ammo. Howitzer ammo is a different kettle of haddock.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A Cavalry Bradley carries two TOWs ready-to-fire and five reloads
                              We carry ten reloads, actually.

                              But Goldie's points are valid. You get more of an intimidation effect with a big gun when it comes to Stability/Support operations, more sustained firepower effects, and a greater variety of effects depending on which round you want to put in next.

                              NTM
                              Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X