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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    I did read and no where in the reply did I make a comparison on size!
    The point was the that the M1128 105mm MGS are Cavalry vehicles under the control of the Cavalry Squadron. They together with the M1134 ATGW vehicles are attached to the Infantry battalions but are cavalry:

    1st In BN gets A TRP CAV SQDN with 1st PLT with 3 ATGW and 4th PLT with 4 MGS
    2nd In BN gets B TRP CAV SQDN with 2nd PLT with 3 ATGW and 5th PLT with 4 MGS
    3rd In BN gets C TRP CAV SQDN with 3rd PLT with 3 ATGW and 6PLT with 4 MGS
    That US Cavalry Squadron you keep making comparisons to is a Battalion size unit.
    The US Cavalry recce/scout Troop is their equivalent to an Irish Cav Squadron, they do not have 105mm or ATGM Stryker's.
    There is also no point making comparisons to US Stryker infantry battalions either as there is only enough Mowags to deploy a number of mech infantry companies at most.
    If a mech inf coy needs fire support vehicles then it should be an integral part of that unit's structure like I said earlier and not part of a Brigade unit.
    The primary role of the Cav here is formation recce, that formation being the Brigade, it's not to be chopped up to support minor units leaving it incapable of its primary role.

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    • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
      If a mech inf coy needs fire support vehicles then it should be an integral part of that unit's structure like I said earlier and not part of a Brigade unit.
      The primary role of the Cav here is formation recce, that formation being the Brigade, it's not to be chopped up to support minor units leaving it incapable of its primary role.
      One problem apart from lack of enough cars is that there seems to be fixation on a Brigade structure.
      We will never deploy a brigade and even the US Army is moving down from Brigade sized formations to Battalion. I agree that smaller units should have more integral fire support if it is needed. It might be worth in the up-coming Review which both major parties are proposing to fundamentally look at the organisation and not just do cosmetic changes to a basic structure that has been around for 100yrs almost.

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      • Bdes are really the smallest possible all arms formation, they can be task org’ed into Battlegroups

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        • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
          You obviously didn't read what you quoted, so I'll say it again.
          A US Army Squadron is a Battalion size unit, its no comparison to an Irish Squadron which is Company size.



          In the near future, all going well, all the Infantry DRWS's will be upgraded to take the Javelin. The estimated cost for this project is so low it wouldn't buy one 105mm Mowag, so will be excellent value for money when/if it's done.



          The Javelin is an Infantry weapon, not a Cav weapon. They also don't use the DRWS.
          I really can't abide statements like this; the Javelin is for anyone who's immediate tactical need is to knock out an AFV or an entrenched or hardened enemy structure. It doesnt matter who operates it, as long as they are prepared to carry it into the battlefield, by foot or by vehicle. insisting that a portable weapon like a Javelin is solely for one user is capbadge rivalry.

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          • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
            I really can't abide statements like this; the Javelin is for anyone who's immediate tactical need is to knock out an AFV or an entrenched or hardened enemy structure. It doesnt matter who operates it, as long as they are prepared to carry it into the battlefield, by foot or by vehicle. insisting that a portable weapon like a Javelin is solely for one user is capbadge rivalry.
            Let's stick to reality, the only Corps that uses the Javelin is the Infantry.

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            • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
              Let's stick to reality, the only Corps that uses the Javelin is the Infantry.
              Is that only because up to now we did not have vehicle mounted versions?
              Is there a tactical reason why the CRV could not be retro fitted with a DRWS that also had Javelin? Being the forward element they are going to be the ones who run into the opponents armour first?

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                Bdes are really the smallest possible all arms formation, they can be task org’ed into Battlegroups
                A Battlegroup can be formed from any size organisation, that is the nature of a Battlegroup. It is a flexible organisation set-up to tackle and operational task. Normally arranged around a Battalion.
                Last edited by EUFighter; 26 January 2020, 10:27.

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                • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                  Let's stick to reality, the only Corps that uses the Javelin is the Infantry.
                  In our military yes.

                  In other militaries, not so true
                  Last edited by Fantasia; 26 January 2020, 10:48.

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                  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                    A Battlegroup can be formed from any size organisation, that is the nature of a Battlegroup. It is a flexible organisation set-up to tackle and operational task. Normally arranged around a Battalion.
                    And the smallest possible organisation to do that is a bde

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                    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                      Is that only because up to now we did not have vehicle mounted versions?
                      Is there a tactical reason why the CRV could not be retro fitted with a DRWS that also had Javelin? Being the forward element they are going to be the ones who run into the opponents armour first?
                      ISR units do not directly engage the enemy, their weapons are for self-defence. The Javelin could be useful in providing dismounted overwatch for recce units operating outside of indirect fire range.

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                      • But ISR isn’t Cav’s only role

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                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          And the smallest possible organisation to do that is a bde
                          The French for a Battle-group is Demi-Brigade; so a half of a brigade.
                          In the British Army a Brigade can be divided into 3-4 Battlegroup (or be a Regiment).
                          The Kampfgruppe of WW2 could range in size from a company to a corps, but the most common was an Abteilung (battalion)-sized formation.

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                          • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                            ISR units do not directly engage the enemy, their weapons are for self-defence. The Javelin could be useful in providing dismounted overwatch for recce units operating outside of indirect fire range.
                            I know it is the US again but the M3 CRV version of the Bradley carried more TOW missiles (12) than the M2 IFV version.
                            Why? because they were the ones who might get in trouble with the opponent armour.

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                            • it wouldnt hurt to carry at least one Javelin per Mowag as a standard, regardless of the actual fit or function of the Mowag. Who cares if a dismounted soldier or a man in a turret fires it, as long as it gets fired at all?

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                              • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                                ISR units do not directly engage the enemy, their weapons are for self-defence. The Javelin could be useful in providing dismounted overwatch for recce units operating outside of indirect fire range.
                                That depends on whether you are using them for offensive recce or defensive recce, like blocking forces, delaying forces even flank protection
                                Last edited by Fantasia; 26 January 2020, 21:21.

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