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  • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
    By the time the Mowag Midlife Upgrade is complete we will be about 2 years out from starting the planning phases of replacing the fleet.

    Go figure
    I know it is a long shot, but all of the sane parties are proposing to have a proper defence review this summer hopefully then we will see some movement. We know that for modern operations there are only enough Piranha for battalion of so. Even if we take all the other vehicles the DF has it would be difficult to transport everyone today, and that is without hauling supplies as well. So if we do need more vehicle we could start procurement before the Piranhas are removed from the PDF with the last tranche. Evaluation should not take long as they would only be two main contenders: MOWAG Piranha V and the Patria AMV, the Boxer is just too heavy and expensive.

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    • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
      By the time the Mowag Midlife Upgrade is complete we will be about 2 years out from starting the planning phases of replacing the fleet.

      Go figure
      The normal rule of thumb for upgrading anything is to have the Mk 2 on the drawing board, as soon as the Mk 1 is on the QM's shelf and tell the last guy in the door, on Monday morning, to get started on the Mk3. Given that it appears to take a decade to get anything, from boots to bombs, introduced to the units, you'd need to have the Mowag replacement ordered before this lot is worn out and ready for hard targets...

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      • https://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmaga...57714065673642

        Mowags back from UNIFIL. They look well used. I wonder how long it takes to get them serviced and back in service

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        • Originally posted by apc View Post
          https://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmaga...57714065673642

          Mowags back from UNIFIL. They look well used. I wonder how long it takes to get them serviced and back in service
          They may be heading for the upgrade that all the others got. APCs using RWS instead of turret now. The white paint is not designed to stay on forever. It looks weathered very quickly.
          Yet another repatriation that could have been carried out by a suitably equipped naval vessel. 9 mowags = About 72LM only. Instead they have to be stripped bare, loaded aboard this cargo ship, and left to the mercy of the civilian crew until arrival. There was a time when they would be lashed onto the deck of a naval vessel, and brought home during the annual resupply mission.
          As an aside Celine is the worlds's Largest short sea RORO vessel.
          German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
          German 2: Private? I am a general!
          German 1: That is the bad news.

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          • Originally posted by apc View Post
            https://www.flickr.com/photos/dfmaga...57714065673642

            Mowags back from UNIFIL. They look well used. I wonder how long it takes to get them serviced and back in service
            Will we not be sending them to Kreuzlingen to get the MLU?

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            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
              There was a time when they would be lashed onto the deck of a naval vessel, and brought home during the annual resupply mission.
              1 at a time and that was slightly smaller Panhard

              It may have brought out the replacements to Lebanon as well

              It does show utility of MRV though

              Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
              Will we not be sending them to Kreuzlingen to get the MLU?
              Yes

              Comment


              • ...and unless you properly waterproof and protect a vehicle lashed to a deck, at the mercy of salt water, all you get is a piece of unfit junk at the far end...shipping AFVs is a bit of an art form in itself.

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                • So how did the Mowags get from Lebanon to Zeebrugge in Belgium , the Ro/Ro vessel Celine operates from Zeebrugge to Dublin so the vehicles had to be shipped onboard another vessel to Zeebrugge and unloaded and loaded by civilian drivers . As big as the Celine is she does not accommodate drivers either .
                  Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                  • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                    ...and unless you properly waterproof and protect a vehicle lashed to a deck, at the mercy of salt water, all you get is a piece of unfit junk at the far end...shipping AFVs is a bit of an art form in itself.
                    A couple of APCs arrived back in Haulbowline from Lebanon in the 80s on the deck of one of the PVs , the Customs Officers wanted to have a look inside them but the doors had been spot welded by the Army prior to departure from Lebanon to help make them more " watertight " , Customs accompanied the APCs to Collins Bks in Cork and when the doors were opened the contents of Honest Abduls gift shop were to be found inside .
                    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                    • Had the opposite once coming back from exercise in Germany - we were told HMRC would be all over us like a rash, and anyone who was caught would face a double whammy of an interview without coffee / charge once customs had finished with them. Nobody (as far as I know) risked filling up their Ambulance with cheap NAAFI booze, and on arrival at Portsmouth Docks, no sight nor sign of Customs.
                      'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                      'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                      Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                      He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                      http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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                      • Originally posted by Laners View Post
                        A couple of APCs arrived back in Haulbowline from Lebanon in the 80s on the deck of one of the PVs , the Customs Officers wanted to have a look inside them but the doors had been spot welded by the Army prior to departure from Lebanon to help make them more " watertight " , Customs accompanied the APCs to Collins Bks in Cork and when the doors were opened the contents of Honest Abduls gift shop were to be found inside .
                        It has long been alleged that some of Lebanon's naughtier produce was inside those cars and it was also alleged that an NCO "shopped" some of his Officers to the Customs, because of undeclared items inside the M3s. Allegedly...

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                        • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                          ...and unless you properly waterproof and protect a vehicle lashed to a deck, at the mercy of salt water, all you get is a piece of unfit junk at the far end...shipping AFVs is a bit of an art form in itself.
                          Its fairly straightforward to waterproof vehicles for the trip back from Beirut.

                          Carried a few vehicles on a ship in the 2000s, vehicles were wrapped and we gave them a freshwater scrub & hose down midway, and just before offloading.

                          Beirut to Cork is about 10 days at 12 knts.

                          The P60s could potentially carry 3 Mowags.

                          P31 could carry the 9 id say including one in the hanger.

                          If P31 had many years left ,it would be worth fitting a telescopic extension to the hanger for this type of tasking.

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                          • Back around 2005 P31 was destined to carry out an overseas resupply. Her deck had been modified to accept twistlocks, and the helideck permanently marked by engineers to show where to park mowags in line with the ships stability profile.
                            Sadly the mission was scrubbed and we will never know how that would have worked out.
                            From memory she can stack TEU 2 high, 3 abreast with six places on deck. There was some "if only" discussion at the time about if the hangar profile had extended across the full beam, there could have been modification to the hangar door to potentially accommodate 2 mowag side by side. You would have a 12m wide hangar with 2m lost through exhaust trunking, instead of a 6m wide hangar with 2m lost to internal trunking.
                            Maybe next time.
                            German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
                            German 2: Private? I am a general!
                            German 1: That is the bad news.

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                            • Our few naval vessels are patrol vessels, of which we hardly have enough. There are cheaper and easier ways to move equipment to the Lebanon and the easiest is container shipment. As it is something everyone can look up, Singapore send lots of equipment to different training areas all over the world and they even have 4 LSD (LST) vessels. A few year back because they where shipping some Terrex vehicles back from training in Taiwan via Hong Kong they got into some customs heat. But if you look at how they were shipping it was simple; they have a 40ft low load pallet onto which they place a wrapped Terrex. This means it can be put on any container ship and that it can be offloaded onto a standard container trailer if further transport is needed. No need to mess about with modifying a ship with limited transport capacity.

                              If we ever wanted to transport all 80 MOWAGs then we need look no further that our big neighbor who has 4 Point class ships just for this type of job!
                              Last edited by EUFighter; 4 May 2020, 08:12.

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                              • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                                Its fairly straightforward to waterproof vehicles for the trip back from Beirut.

                                Carried a few vehicles on a ship in the 2000s, vehicles were wrapped and we gave them a freshwater scrub & hose down midway, and just before offloading.

                                Beirut to Cork is about 10 days at 12 knts.

                                The P60s could potentially carry 3 Mowags.

                                P31 could carry the 9 id say including one in the hanger.

                                If P31 had many years left ,it would be worth fitting a telescopic extension to the hanger for this type of tasking.
                                But is that the best use of your asset and the most cost effective way of transporting them. Sure where supply routes are limited you can do it that way but where dedicated more cost effective options are there why bother?

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