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  • Panhard AML

    'Veteran' Army cars soldier on

    A fleet of Irish armoured vehicles in service for over 45 years is to soldier on for the foreseeable future. French Panhard 4x4 armoured cars first entered service in 1964, when the Defence Forces demanded modern armoured cars after they were forced to fight in home-built 1940s vintage Ford cars in the Congo operation.

    Later batches were also bought, including AML-90 vehicles with a powerful 90mm anti-tank gun.

    However, when the Defence Forces re-equipped with a €120m fleet of 8x8 Mowag armoured vehicles in recent years, they found that the Panhards could not keep up with the modern vehicles.

    Although they served in operations in Cyprus, Lebanon, and Liberia, the Panhards were not taken to Chad or the latest mission in Lebanon.

    Now the Army wants vehicle spare parts to keep the Panhard fleet on the road in Ireland. The Panhards were upgraded in the last decade by South African firm Reumech OMC, with new sights and 20mm guns.

    Five years ago, outgoing Chief of Staff Lt Gen Jim Sreenan said that the next vehicle equipment priority was to get a replacement for the AML-90 fleet.

    However, that now appears to have been shelved for the moment, with more Mowag reconnaissance vehicles bought for the Cavalry Corps instead.
    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...n-3105741.html

  • #2
    Which are of greater use, the Mowags or the AML-90's, in the big scheme of things?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

    Comment


    • #3
      They still won't be going overseas any time soon. The "upgrades" made many practically useless.
      Well done on a non story from the indo. "army seeks spare parts for a vehicle it uses-shocker".
      Shame on you Rhodes for reading the Indo-enemy of the Public Sector worker.

      While the AML60 entered service in 1964, the current in-service cars bear only a faint resemblence to that car.
      Petrol engine-gone(and with it the whole back end of the car).
      60mm Mortar-Gone, replaced with a 20mm upside down gun.
      It is unfortunate they didn't upgrade the drivers seat while they were at it.
      Its like saying the army still uses the same GPMGs it first got back in Nineteen-smonty smosh.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
        Which are of greater use, the Mowags or the AML-90's, in the big scheme of things?
        Mowags, definitely. The AML is no longer a realistic defence against enemy armour and its design makes it an ineffective recce car. Crew Fatigue plays a big part in this, though, improved crew helmets has made a difference.
        Driver position is only good for 50 miles max. They are of a bygone age. Remember when cars had a single bench seat in front, no reclining, and no seat belt? That generation. Turret drop seats are OK, but the opiscopes were not included in the upgrade.
        It is still based on a WW2 design, when the opfor it will encounter will probably be armed to cold war standard.
        The Mowag on the other hand provide a modern, fast, comfortable means of armoured transport to its crew and passengers, while still providing them with excellent situational awareness. It has proved itself in Eritrea, Chad, Liberia and of course Lebanon. Apart from the initial complaints about weld cracking (which was rectified in the first batch) we have heard no complaints from its users. The Cav versions also provide a modern, realistic armament for the percieved threat.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • #5
          However, when the Defence Forces re-equipped with a €120m fleet of 8x8 Mowag armoured vehicles in recent years, they found that the Panhards could not keep up with the modern vehicles.
          No mention of the defect in the recoil mechanism of the 90, which caused them to be pulled from service on Health & Safety issues.

          Connaught Stranger

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
            No mention of the defect in the recoil mechanism of the 90, which caused them to be pulled from service on Health & Safety issues.

            Connaught Stranger
            What defect is that? It works fine when fitters put the right things in the right places.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
              What defect is that? It works fine when fitters put the right things in the right places.
              The defect, as I remember was in the recoil mechanism, causing oil from the recoil mechanism to be sprayed into the compartment, it was a little more serious than just Fitters forgetting to put the right things in the right places.

              Connaught Stranger.

              Comment


              • #8
                The defect was caused by fitters putting the wrong thing in the wrong places. The oil only escaped because the wrong gas was put in the mechanism. When it couldn't go where it was designed to go, it had to find another route. Result, big flash inside turret, which was actually caught on camera. Gunners helmet was blown off, and is seen flying through the air.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                  Which are of greater use, the Mowags or the AML-90's, in the big scheme of things?
                  Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                  Mowags, definitely. The AML is no longer a realistic defence against enemy armour and its design makes it an ineffective recce car.
                  Depends on what you want it to do?!

                  If you want fire support to take on enemy light/medium armour, it may be better to have a 90mm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    Depends on what you want it to do?!

                    If you want fire support to take on enemy light/medium armour, it may be better to have a 90mm
                    if i had to take on any sort of armour I'd rather be in the MRV than the aml, the mk 44 30mm is light years ahead.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DeV View Post

                      If you want fire support to take on enemy light/medium armour, it may be better to have a 90mm
                      And if they bad guy has anything more powerful than an AK it'd be better to be in a Mowag.
                      Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Given the engine upgrade could have included a bigger , more powerful engine, and increased the road speed, it would compromise crew safety.

                        Anyone who has travelled in an AML will tell you that speed on metalled roads is fine but off road the car would be far to unstable.

                        they have a tendency to roll into corners and once or twice there were reach out and almost touch the ground moments.

                        The AML 20s gun is as good as useless, the 90 gun to old to be effective against modern armour.Given the have aboslutely no commonality with the tactics currently practised by the Cavalry they really have no place in the PDF.

                        If they are not suitable for the PDF nor are they suitable for the RDF but the reserve squadrons outside the pale still have AML 90s on charge and while they are well maintained,capable of full filling their original intended role again unless the PDF Cav change their role (again) and the reserve follows they have no credible use.l

                        They are difficult to maintain, difficult for driver training and of very limited value operationally so why spend money on something that should have been replaced 10 years ago.
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Brass know exactly what needs to be done, ie, confine the AMLs to a museum and buy Mowag-based 90 or 105mm guns, capable of dealing effectively with at least a T55 or a T-62, much more likely to be found in Africa or the Middle East. If a T72 rocks up, buy more javelins or an SU-25.

                          regards
                          GttC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                            The Brass know exactly what needs to be done, ie, confine the AMLs to a museum and buy Mowag-based 90 or 105mm guns, capable of dealing effectively with at least a T55 or a T-62, much more likely to be found in Africa or the Middle East. If a T72 rocks up, buy more javelins or an SU-25.

                            regards
                            GttC
                            I know the Belgian Mowag/90mm was a political decision, but surely that solution would suit us rather than going down the unproven Mowag/105mm road or buying a completely different chassis.
                            Have we encountered a situation in the past where we needed something bigger than a 90mm? If we have or will then a Mowag/105mm is not the answer ,we should be looking at something better (MBT) or reassessing our roles.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by apc View Post
                              I know the Belgian Mowag/90mm was a political decision
                              http://www.armyrecognition.com/wheel...moured_uk.html

                              the Belgians are not the only ones with mowag 90mm gun systems
                              Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

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