13 Ford F-350 SORV for Irish Army (Sp Fces)

[FMolloy]

An example of a lighter vehicle with a smaller engine, and it's armoured..

And it's small, and it can't carry any more than three troops...

And most importantly it isn't used by the French SF, they just got the unarmoured VPS. So what does that tell you?

[thebig C]

And it's small, and it can't carry any more than three troops...

And most importantly it isn't used by the French SF, they just got the unarmoured VPS. So what does that tell you?

When you don't want to be seen, small is usually best, and a crew of three seems to be be normal for these vehicles, e.g. the Rangers' SRV, WIMIK Land Rover.... French Special Forces include the 2eme Regiment de Hussards, which uses the VBL to infiltrate and operate up to 150km behind enemy lines.

According to www.defense-update.com, "The Panhard A3 VPS all terrain vehicle is designed to fit into the confined space of CH-53 and NH90 helicopters.... These vehicles provide high mobility over rough terrain but rarely have armor protection due to the weight penalty of the armor." I made that point in an earlier post: "....That (lack of armour) would seem to be justifiable only if there is an essential constraint such as weight, e.g. to allow deployment of the vehicle by helicopter..."

[luchi]

An excellent Panorama documentary on 3 Commando in Afghanistan, who operate in open vehicles like the ones being discussed here:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr0n9_3-commando

As the reporter himself states:
"These vehicles aren't built for protection, but for chasing and fighting."

Just watched the video.

That should solve any questions about why the SORV or another open vehicle is the right one for the job

[mutter nutter]

Just watched the video.

That should solve any questions about why the SORV or another open vehicle is the right one for the job

I doubt it will.....

[hptmurphy]

"An example of a lighter vehicle with a smaller engine, and it's armoured"

we tried this particular vehicle years ago,,,

Now look at the spec...lightly armoured, fast three man crew, capable of being heavily armed......

sound familiar..sounds like an AML 60 to me.....oh DoH!!! is that what we are trying to repalce in the tactical recce role?

[Goldie fish]

Think of the SORV as an infantryman. Sure you can send him into battle wearing the same body armour as the EOD guy who gets to defuse bombs, but he won't be mobile, he won't be useful for long and pretty soon he'll be knackered. The EOD guy needs all the armour because he will be in harms way for prolongued periods.

So you send the infantryman out well armed, with a nice helmet, and clothed to carry everything he needs to fight efficiently, without overloading him or restricting his dexterity. Maybe a basic armoured vest if there is a risk from snipers, but no need for the chest plate unless its really nasty out there.

[luchi]

I doubt it will.....

there is always 1

Maybe I should have said

That should solve any questions about why the SORV or another open vehicle is the right one for a specific job that the pers that operate the vehicle have been tasked to do and that those pers with regard to their mission perameters have decided would afford them the greatest probability of mission success.

[farlee]

Here's a good review of the civilian Ford f350, F series trucks are the biggest selling trucks in America, in 2002 827,500 were produced in the US and 139,300 produced in Canada and Mexico, so spare parts are plentiful. A 6.4L, 350 HP diesel is an option with these trucks also.

http://www.kbb.com/KBB/NewCars/Revie...ew&YearId=2008

[luchi]

But as the reviews say if you aint hauling a big trailer or a heavy load you got the wrong machine.

This vehicle is built as a heavy hauler not an SUV or MPV.

From a mil spec point of view this is a specialist piece for bringing small but heavy kit to places that would not normally be accessable.

[luchi]

So would any one like this version of the SORV?



Or may be you want heavier armourment?

[thebig C]

At least those guys can stay warm and dry. Did you notice it's a Ford 'Ranger'?

Pick-ups with a gun used to be called 'technicals' - would that term describe the ARW's SORV?

[apod]

After reading all the posts and quietly following this thread for a couple of days(and biting my tongue for most of em)i have only one question to ask.Carrington,what is your point???

Are you saying that the Arw have chosen the wrong vechicle?And if so what experience of special forces operations do you personally have that qualifies you to pass that judgement?

I am sure that if you know more than the best soldiers in the defence forces,who have cross trained with the best soldiers from other armies,they would be delighted to hear it.

[mutter nutter]

After reading all the posts and quietly following this thread for a couple of days(and biting my tongue for most of em)i have only one question to ask.Carrington,what is your point???

Are you saying that the Arw have chosen the wrong vechicle?And if so what experience of special forces operations do you personally have that qualifies you to pass that judgement?

I am sure that if you know more than the best soldiers in the defence forces,who have cross trained with the best soldiers from other armies,they would be delighted to hear it.

Damn it man, your speaking to an elite member of the 22nd chairborne brigade "The Ginger spotty devil's", feared warriors known throughout the internet for their ferocity in E-battle, and their ability to give opinions on anything and everything, to stealthly sneak in and out of disscussions without leaving a mark.



I hope to join their illustrious ranks ones day.........one day

[thebig C]

After reading all the posts and quietly following this thread for a couple of days(and biting my tongue for most of em)i have only one question to ask.Carrington,what is your point???

Are you saying that the Arw have chosen the wrong vechicle?And if so what experience of special forces operations do you personally have that qualifies you to pass that judgement?

I am sure that if you know more than the best soldiers in the defence forces,who have cross trained with the best soldiers from other armies,they would be delighted to hear it.

I don’t know if the ARW have chosen the right vehicle, because I don’t know enough about their specific requirements and the detailed features of the Ford and the other vehicles that presumably were considered prior to the decision to purchase the Fords. Being a somewhat secretive organisation, it’s not likely that the ARW are going to tell me if I were to ask.

So I posted some of my questions and doubts on this board, in the hope that someone would reply, “Ah, but what you don’t know/understand is xxxxxxx, so that’s why this type of vehicle, and the Ford in particular, are perfect for the job.” However that hasn’t happened yet.

The issues I’ve asked about are not rocket science; mostly it’s common sense. I don’t play Premier League football, but that doesn’t stop me shouting advice at managers, players and/or referees from time to time. I’m not a TD, but I have strong views about who should be in government. I do have some expertise in certain areas, but that doesn’t mean that I refuse to listen to anyone outside of my organisation or who hasn’t got a PhD in my subject. (On the contrary, some of those people with PhDs shouldn’t be let cross the road on their own.)

No, I haven’t been a member of the ARW, SAS, or any Special Forces organisation. But I think it’s reasonable that I should take an interest, because military matters are too important to be the sole preserve of those in the Defence Forces, because vast sums of public money are spent on defence and there must be some accountability, and because while I haven’t tabbed across mountains at night carrying a 50kg load, attacked an enemy airbase before breakfast and returned carrying a wounded comrade over my shoulder, I have read about such things, including the cock-up of the SAS’s Bravo Two Zero patrol, for example, and the mess made by US Special Forces in Mogadishu. (In both of these examples it was the 'management' who were at fault, not the guys on the ground, but then again it's usually the 'management' who decide which vehicles to buy.) So I don’t see Special Forces as super-heroes, unlike some of our more impressionable younger members, and I don’t believe that everything they do is perfect.

I repeat my essential question: is the ARW Ford not a very exposed and vulnerable combat vehicle, providing no protection for its crew, and why therefore was it acquired? The only argument in favour of a small, open vehicle for Special Forces appears to be that it has to be light enough to be carried by a helicopter. But if that is the prime consideration, why pick a big, heavy truck like the Ford?

MOD: Your "essential question" has been answered a number of times - thread closed.