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Suggesting a new Cav ORBAT

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  • #91
    Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    No mention of drones, portable; AT-4 or other for self defence; guns bigger than 30mm and no mention of integrated B vehicles.
    You mean in the thread? Drones are going to be a key element of ISTAR taskings going forward and will give a massive capability increase. Guns bigger than 30mm mean platforms as big as the existing Mowag if 105mm is you preferred flavor, or bigger again if you want to move towards 120mm.

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    The above is the typical light Cav Squadron in the BA, this would include drones and AT-4's etc.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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    • #92
      Then you are probably going down the Heavy cavalry route, where the entire Squadron is behind armour, including the HQ and Admin troop.
      The Role, primarily is Recce. Move forward, assess the enemy, inform rest of brigade, defend oneself while withdrawing, Support Infantry during the assault.
      Unfortunately here there seems to be 2 versions of cavalry.
      1.Paper exercise that exists as an ORBAT at home..
      2. Overseas Orbat where Cav assets engage in long range patrols, often alongside infantry as some sort of Mechanised Fire Support group.
      Neither makes sense.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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      • #93
        Their version specifically includes a quarter of the manpower being Reservists. DoD won't want to open that particular box here.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
          Their version specifically includes a quarter of the manpower being Reservists. DoD won't want to open that particular box here.
          They have since 2013

          2/3 RDF Recce Troops per Cav Sqn

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          • #95
            so, have they fixed the elephant in the room re RDF and employment protection?

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            • #96
              Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
              so, have they fixed the elephant in the room re RDF and employment protection?
              Haven’t with the former TA either

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              • #97
                Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                Unfortunately here there seems to be 2 versions of cavalry.
                1.Paper exercise that exists as an ORBAT at home..
                2. Overseas Orbat where Cav assets engage in long range patrols, often alongside infantry as some sort of Mechanised Fire Support group.
                Neither makes sense.
                just two. iv seen FFR as 90s and scorpions as well as been APCs. the main problem within the cav is the goal post keep been moved as to strength and composition of a troop / squadron. which ever role the want the cav to do they need to support it properly with enough vehicles and equipment of what ever type for the squadrons, not just enough for one squadron on the ground. what about a mix of light Cav squadrons as per the saber squadron in the uk for 1 and 2 cav and a beefed up squadron in 1ACS with MRVs and other vehicles.

                Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by madmark View Post

                  what about a mix of light Cav squadrons as per the saber squadron in the uk for 1 and 2 cav and a beefed up squadron in 1ACS with MRVs and other vehicles.
                  Would make sense give that 1 ACS are "Armored" Cav already.

                  Going by the Saber Squadron model, 16 x Jackal 2's for four troops, say 2 DR's per troop too, 4 x Coyote's for the support troop, SHQ with 2 x LTAV type vehicles and Admin Troop with a mix of low loaders, fuel truck etc, it would not be a huge commit to get 1 and 2 CAV an Orbat like this, and say an additional 16 Jackal 2's for Reserves and Spares....I live in hope!

                  Imagine, the Cav Corps doing Cavalry taskings again!!
                  ODIN
                  Lt General
                  Last edited by ODIN; 29 March 2022, 12:10.
                  What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by ODIN View Post

                    Would make sense give that 1 ACS are "Armored" Cav already.

                    Going by the Saber Squadron model, 16 x Jackal 2's for four troops, say 2 DR's per troop too, 4 x Coyote's for the support troop, SHQ with 2 x LTAV type vehicles and Admin Troop with a mix of low loaders, fuel truck etc, it would not be a huge commit to get 1 and 2 CAV an Orbat like this, and say an additional 16 Jackal 2's for Reserves and Spares....I live in hope!

                    Imagine, the Cav Corps doing Cavalry taskings again!!
                    knowing the DOD it would be 16 jackals between both squadrons and overseas....lol
                    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by madmark View Post

                      knowing the DOD it would be 16 jackals between both squadrons and overseas....lol
                      From what I can find, the UK bought 140 x Jackal 2A's and 70 x Coyote's for a combined contract value of £140m. The same article, linked below, references the Jackal 2A contract itself being £45m. My rough calculation puts the cost of a Jackal 2A in 2010 at ~£321k and the Coyote at ~£1.357m. Open to correction though.

                      https://www.gov.uk/government/news/j...in-afghanistan
                      What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ODIN View Post

                        From what I can find, the UK bought 140 x Jackal 2A's and 70 x Coyote's for a combined contract value of £140m. The same article, linked below, references the Jackal 2A contract itself being £45m. My rough calculation puts the cost of a Jackal 2A in 2010 at ~£321k and the Coyote at ~£1.357m. Open to correction though.

                        https://www.gov.uk/government/news/j...in-afghanistan
                        so for the price of a new navy ship we could sort out the cav corps vehicles...….our lot never go for it if it makes sense
                        Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by madmark View Post

                          so for the price of a new navy ship we could sort out the cav corps vehicles...….our lot never go for it if it makes sense
                          Say a cost of £350k a Jackal 2A and £1.5mil a Coyote today, and assuming a quantity of 48 Jackals and 16 Coyotes, we're talking ~£41m or €48.5m. So about 68% the cost of a P60.

                          *Please note a shed load of assumptions on my part here, and rough figures from 2010 as the base of the figures, with assumption on cost increases from 2010 to 2022
                          What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                          Comment


                          • British gold plating kit can be ridiculous but even they would struggle to get to 1.3 mill for this..

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                            • If we head down the road of LOA2 or 3, we are likely to see a lot more APCs for the infantry

                              Is Jackal with a GMG/HMG/Javelin and a 7.62mm (and no dismountable element) capable of doing all the roles that could be asked of the Cav ??

                              personnally I’d say no. MRV and CRV are better suited (currently at least)

                              unfortunately it isn’t realistic to have relatively large numbers of RDF MOWAG crews….. so what does the RDF do?

                              provide the dismounted elements or crew a separate Jackal type vehicle ?

                              personally, a Jackal type vehicle possibly makes most sense but again what about the dismounted element?

                              Comment


                              • When you use UK purchase prices, you must also take into account the numerous bribes to the Tory party that had to be paid to get the project started.
                                A better guide would be an export order, like Estonia.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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