Australian Bushmasters to Ukraine

[DeV]

https://twitter.com/walter_report/st...0Bkz2f-XY-6OUQ

[Rhodes]

Was the MP44 not proposed as the replacement for the Panhard M3 but rejected as the requirement was for an 8x8?

Timoney withdrew itself from the APC competition and instead tried to enter into a joint venture to assemble or build parts of the Mowags in Ireland which came to nothing.

[DeV]

Actually Timoney proposed the MP66, a six by six version of the Bushmaster (MP44). The "final" MP66 design had two front steerable axles and one rear axle unlike the original design which had two rear axles and a single front axle. Whilst Thales has a fully paid up license for the Bushmaster as far as I know they did not have a license for the 6x6. I have seen a drawing of a 6x6 that was the subject of a joint proposal by Thales with Oshkosh for a 6x6 Bushmaster for the US Army but it was not selected and therefore not proceeded with.

The late Professor Seamus Timoney's brother Eanna, also an engineer is still involved with Timoney Technology though I believe he is retired from day to day activity.

https://www.geocities.ws/irisharmoredvehicles/MP66.html

[ias]

Actually Timoney proposed the MP66, a six by six version of the Bushmaster (MP44). The "final" MP66 design had two front steerable axles and one rear axle unlike the original design which had two rear axles and a single front axle. Whilst Thales has a fully paid up license for the Bushmaster as far as I know they did not have a license for the 6x6. I have seen a drawing of a 6x6 that was the subject of a joint proposal by Thales with Oshkosh for a 6x6 Bushmaster for the US Army but it was not selected and therefore not proceeded with.

The late Professor Seamus Timoney's brother Eanna, also an engineer is still involved with Timoney Technology though I believe he is retired from day to day activity.

[na grohmiti]

Was the MP44 not proposed as the replacement for the Panhard M3 but rejected as the requirement was for an 8x8?

No prototypes. It was not in production at the time. Some of the Timoney supporters felt an irish designed vehicle would have been good for local industry. The Level of influence Prof Timoney still ad in the company at that stage was questionable though, given he had died in 1991.
The Pandur that made the cut was 6x6. I think APC design had gone in 2 defined paths at the start of the millenium. 4x4 Armoured trucks which became MRAPs, often based on experience in Angola and the other Bush Wars, and Hull down enclosed wedges with 6, 8 or 10 wheels. Like everything, lessons had been learnt from the Russian Afghan & Gulf War experience, and the use of IED to attack armoured vehicles (as evidenced by our own local conflict) protect the passengers, have enough spare wheels to get you home if a mine took one.
You had on one side the "battle taxi" which would deliver the infantry section in safety to the battlefield, and provide a basic level of fire support, and the Mine Protected vehicle, which wouldn't carry the full section ready for battle, but could still bring smaller units through the battlefield in safety. Bushmasters became designated PMVs(Protected Mobility Vehicle) later on, to distinguish them from the AUSLAV APC (similar to Mowag Piranha)
Of course the thinking has changed again.

[Jaque'ammer]

Was the MP44 not proposed as the replacement for the Panhard M3 but rejected as the requirement was for an 8x8?

Somewhere, buried deep in this forum, there is a reference to that yes.

I think the Pandur I was another contender.

[EUFighter]

Was the MP44 not proposed as the replacement for the Panhard M3 but rejected as the requirement was for an 8x8?

[na grohmiti]

At this stage about as irish developed as the Submarine.

[DeV]

There is a myth that the Bushmaster is an Irish Built vehicle. Some are claiming ownership of any Bushmaster as a result. This notion lacks logic.

Irish developed (as MP44 and MP66) but a lot of development work completed on it since

[na grohmiti]

There is a myth that the Bushmaster is an Irish Built vehicle. Some are claiming ownership of any Bushmaster as a result. This notion lacks logic.

[DeV]

How do you mean?

[gaff85]

I understand that there is a war ongoing there, but howcome the Irish Army was not aware of the spare stick that Australia has given to date to the Holland and now Ukraine
And with their older Abrahms in storage, if we need an mbt.....