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  • #16
    Originally posted by ODIN View Post

    The Mowag, while a very capable vehicle, is not best suited to Recce, after all, it is an APC. The Cavalry role and Infantry roles are very different, so different equipment will be needed. This would be like limiting the Drop Shorts to 60mm Mortars as that is what is sitting in Infantry Stores.
    The Mowag isn't just an APC, it's a family of variant vehicles based on a common platform, sharing the same power pack, drivetrain and hull design. The support variants like ambulance, CRV and MRV etc have their own unique fit-out, layout, weapon systems, comms gear to suit their role.

    Originally posted by Banner View Post
    There is massive commonality between all the vehicles in the EBRC family as all are based on (I believe) a Renault truck 6 wheel platform. The scorpion is the armoured car with 40mm gun plus 2 atgm with 2 reloads carried in the hull. The APC is based on the same chassis with many identical parts and is called Griffon. The Griffon is Stanag level 4 (same as the Mowags) Carries 8 dismounts and is armed with a REmote weapons station that can be fitted with .50 cal or HMG launcher etc same as the Mowags. Griffon however will be unpopular with some as it doesn’t look as aggressive as a Mowag because of its big ass windscreen. Griffon is supposed to be cheap. Belgium and France have ordered plenty of both (and other variants)

    The Griffon internally is a very small vehicle, like most French armoured vehicles. I've seen images of them with eight dismounts in the rear and they are extremely cramped with no room for extra gear or support weapons. Weapon systems options are very limited, with no chance of fitting a Kongsberg 30mm RWS. There is also the problem of reduced mobility being 6x6.
    It's very much like a stretched LTAV, very similar to the Mowag Eagle 6x6.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      Serval is Huge tho. Will take a while before they'll be offering them for export.
      As is EBRC Jaguar….. it’s bigger than a MOWAG

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DeV View Post

        As is EBRC Jaguar….. it’s bigger than a MOWAG
        Well, when you compare the Piranha 3 with the Piranha 5, there is a massive weight difference, as does the Boxer. When we come to replace the PIII, no matter what we go for, it will be larger and heavier.
        What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ODIN View Post

          Well, when you compare the Piranha 3 with the Piranha 5, there is a massive weight difference, as does the Boxer. When we come to replace the PIII, no matter what we go for, it will be larger and heavier.
          It will the Jaguar is an armoured car with 3 crew, 40mm CTA and ATGMs and is significantly heavier and larger than the MOWAG Piranha IIIH which carries 10-11 personnel.

          on island, weight could become an issue for bridges

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          • #20
            The Jaguar is 25 tones fully loaded. MRV weighs in at 5 tones heavier (30 Tonnes) so weight won’t be an issue.

            It does “look” bigger on YouTube but I haven’t checked the height width etc recently so don’t know the facts on that score.

            As regards commonality- it’s from a very large family of vehicles including ambulance, mortar carrier etc all designed around the same drive train, chassis, gearbox etc etc so again not an issue.

            No idea if it’s even going to be shortlisted but I believe we will probably go down this road or possibly Boxer or a different combo possibly including Centauro. I’ve no idea really and it will depend on the force structure that’s decided upon post re org and the mission profile we are configured for and required capabilities

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            • #21
              Don’t read too much into it according to twitter they were at the British army’s combined manuever school last week so they might just be using up budget before the end of year on jollies

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              • #22
                You have to remember that the PIIIH might be in the last 10 years of its life (excepting Irish historical precedent which would suggest it will be kept in nominal service until 2090) so jollies are also known as marketing.

                We may not intend to, or be right to buy any particular platform. But state industrial welfare dictates that efforts will be made to sell them to us.
                "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Come-quickly View Post
                  You have to remember that the PIIIH might be in the last 10 years of its life (excepting Irish historical precedent which would suggest it will be kept in nominal service until 2090) so jollies are also known as marketing.

                  We may not intend to, or be right to buy any particular platform. But state industrial welfare dictates that efforts will be made to sell them to us.
                  Its a good point. We sent the AML90s and 60s for turret and engine upgrades in 2000 and they were withdrawn from service in 2013.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Come-quickly View Post
                    I'd imagine procurement is already looking past the PIII. Common platform is great in theory but it might be too much of a compromise for some use cases.

                    If Paul G is right about the 40mm on the jaguar being bespoke it would almost certainly end up regunned for export.
                    The Belgians are getting the 40mm

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                      Oh no, not in the late noughties. Everyone had been issued pool DPM by then but getting it in your size could be challenging. When on a turret you need something not too baggy so it won't get caught on things as you try to enter/leave. French waterproof leggings had zips on the side so you could take them off without getting them stuck on your boots.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Have a set myself. Great kit
                      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                      • #26
                        https://twitter.com/vincentguerend/s...DTqZqAruMsAAAA

                        Bring home some Jaguars please

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jaque'ammer View Post
                          They're actually looking at getting the two horses in the second pic of the Equitation School!!
                          What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ODIN View Post

                            They're actually looking at getting the two horses in the second pic of the Equitation School!!
                            Only if they are Irish

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